Blocking immigration vans, for or against?

[WATFORD zero]

All this control we got back sure is nice, eh?

Can only imagine how bad it would be without all this wonderful control we're enjoying.

So much control.

Just as well we got the control back as the problem seems to have (purely coincidentally, I'm sure) increased over three fold since we got that control

 

[Bakero]

The public should not try to stop the police doing their job . We don’t live in a police state , in a free democratic country , laws should be enforced .

Just because something is enshrined in law doesn't make it right. Laws criminalised homosexuality, allowed slavery and prohibited women from voting.

Acceptance of civil disobedience is surely a sign that we live in a free country and not a police state.

 

[lawros left foot]

It’s not big or clever to encourage a yob mentality, which is what you appear to be doing .

How would you suggest the local people protest effectively against what they consider to be unfair. I have watched various videos of this incident, the only ‘yobs’ I can see are the ones in uniform.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s not big or clever to encourage a yob mentality, which is what you appear to be doing .

I think I'm inclined to agree with you. It is never good to encourage a mob mentality.

There should be no blocking of the movement of the police.

However these deportations to Rwanda should also stop.

So how do we square the circle?

I suspect this simply boils down to whether you feel this is just cause. The po-faced criticism by some of the law breaking here is laughably hypocritical. They are barely attempting to hide their support for the Rwanda gambit. Somehow I doubt they'd be backing the police if the police were roughing up people protesting at a labour government granting swift and liberal resolution for asylum seekers

I would also add that the police do need to act even-handedly. When right wingers go on a protest they tend to get carte blanche.

 

[Live by the sea]

How would you suggest the local people protest effectively against what they consider to be unfair. I have watched various videos of this incident, the only ‘yobs’ I can see are the ones in uniform.

The local people don’t decide what’s fair or unfair ! If they want to protest they can go on a March but Not try to stop the police from doing their job. Otherwise England will end up like the States where the police are trigger happy !

 

[carlzeiss]

Make the borough of Southwark a police free zone and allow the residents to provide their own security from now on .

https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/defiant-protesters-block-immigration-raid-in-peckham/

 

[Bakero]

The local people don’t decide what’s fair or unfair ! If they want to protest they can go on a March but Not try to stop the police from doing their job. Otherwise England will end up like the States where the police are trigger happy !

It seems like you'd be happier in a dictatorship.

 

[lawros left foot]

The local people don’t decide what’s fair or unfair ! If they want to protest they can go on a March but Not try to stop the police from doing their job. Otherwise England will end up like the States where the police are trigger happy !

Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandi, Emily Pankhurst, Martin Luther King, Stonewall.

I know which side of history I’d rather be on .

 

[beorhthelm]

Borethem is simply grabbing at lazy tropes to justify his support for Priti Patel.There is nothing anyone can say to change this

many seem to be lazily conflating a matter of immigration enforcement with the problem of border controls. according to the Guardian, chap involved here is a Nigerian overstaying his visa. not a refugee from Syria or Afganistan crossing the channel. people seem to be saying, because we dont accept policy on the latter, its ok to ignore the rest of the law on immigration. i thought rule of law mattered but seems times are changing following the lead by our PM.

on the assement centres they need to go somewhere, Kent is obviously better, i dont see any problem with one in Yorkshire. where else, what is the preferred operation? where do they stay, honestly dont know where refugees get housed, seems to be a bit of blindspot on media and commentry what happens. so im hardly supporting Patel, accepting the need for somewhere to do reception and assessment, while also rejecting the way the border issue is handled.

...
As it happens on of my brothers is involved in assessment of young male asylum seekers, and it all happens in the South East. And, yes, most of them abscond at the drop of a hat.

thats a disappointing revelation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Many agree that the government's immigration policies are reprehensible but not many are willing to do anything about it. I back the protestors. Not an easy situation for the police to deal with but presumably their training doesn't involve kicking prone members of the public.

Agree. I also strongly believe the government are bringing this civil disobedience upon themselves with their endless controversial policies and statements. Maybe this is what they want?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I personally would rather we worked with the EU and targeted spending to set up safe zones in North Africa and maybe Turkey with proper facilities schools medical and asylum claims can be assessed those with a valid claim get the golden ticket and access for the rest it is explained that unfortunately access into any EU and British territory has been denied and they are to be returned to their country of origin.

Alternatively I would rather any asylum seekers who arrive at the French north coast are instead of paying traffickers they are allowed to catch a cross channel ferry once in the uk they would be taken to a camp with schools hospitals and assessed for asylum if then found to not meet the criteria they would be returned to their country of origin

But and it’s a very big but the asylum checking needs to be sympathetic

President Macron offered to set up an asylum centre, in France, for processing claims, but this government refused it. He wanted to prevent camps like Sangatte at Calais.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The public should not try to stop the police doing their job . We don’t live in a police state , in a free democratic country , laws should be enforced .

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

President Macron offered to set up an asylum centre, in France, for processing claims, but this government refused it. He wanted to prevent camps like Sangatte at Calais.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-crossings-france-uk-johnson-macron-letter

Is that what you are referring to ? It would actually be a joint processing Centre. I don’t quite understand the idea that the French see themselves as a ‘transiting country.’ I thought that when people flee war torn areas and claim asylum it should be in the first safe country they arrive in ?

Edit; just done my own research and that is not the case. So it seems asylum seekers can choose to make their claim anywhere they choose in which case there is equally no urgency to make a decision. It is probably most important that it is right for both sides ie fits the needs of the applicant and the country.

As to blocking vans I’m not sure I’m bothered either way. It sounds very newsworthy but really we are just trying to find a solution and using the time we clearly have as there is no particular urgency.

 

[sydney]

Me too

The weather in Rwanda is simply divine this time of year...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-crossings-france-uk-johnson-macron-letter

Is that what you are referring to ? It would actually be a joint processing Centre. I don’t quite understand the idea that the French see themselves as a ‘transiting country.’ I thought that when people flee war torn areas and claim asylum it should be in the first safe country they arrive in ?

No, that isn’t what the UN says. Why would you settle in Italy, when you have family in Britain?

Do you remember the furore about the little boy who was washed up on a beach in Greece? His family were trying to get to Britain because it was easier to get to Canada from here. The elder sister already lived in Canada, and they wanted to join her. The remaining family did end up there.
We have to look at individuals not a blanket generalisation.

 

[sydney]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/26/channel-crossings-france-uk-johnson-macron-letter

Is that what you are referring to ? It would actually be a joint processing Centre. I don’t quite understand the idea that the French see themselves as a ‘transiting country.’ I thought that when people flee war torn areas and claim asylum it should be in the first safe country they arrive in ?

Edit; just done my own research and that is not the case.

that particular ethos has been put forward numerous times but seemingly just bounces off the never will say yeah , donut brigade .......these guys have basically travelled plus/minus 4000 miles over land and sea with the express intention of getting to England , you really have to ask yourself why is that ..?? Athens , Rome , Barca, Madrid , Turin , Hamburg or Berlin all perfectly "safe " locations but no .......it appears that it has to be England ...??

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Another example

An Iranian policeman arrived from Turkey in May, and fled because he refused to open fire on protestors. He was sentenced to 5 years in jail, but escaped whilst on bail.
He is one of those being shipped out to Rwanda.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-61748033

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No, that isn’t what the UN says. Why would you settle in Italy, when you have family in Britain?

Do you remember the furore about the little boy who was washed up on a beach in Greece? His family were trying to get to Britain because it was easier to get to Canada from here. The elder sister already lived in Canada, and they wanted to join her. The remaining family did end up there.
We have to look at individuals not a blanket generalisation.

Yup, you’re right. I edited my post as you were replying.

 

[sydney]

No, that isn’t what the UN says. Why would you settle in Italy, when you have family in Britain?

Do you remember the furore about the little boy who was washed up on a beach in Greece? His family were trying to get to Britain because it was easier to get to Canada from here. The elder sister already lived in Canada, and they wanted to join her. The remaining family did end up there.
We have to look at individuals not a blanket generalisation.

ffs .....1.6 million individuals , with no money ..?? are you for real...??

 

[Thunder Bolt]

that particular ethos has been put forward numerous times but seemingly just bounces off the never will say yeah , donut brigade .......these guys have basically travelled plus/minus 4000 miles over land and sea with the express intention of getting to England , you really have to ask yourself why is that ..?? Athens , Rome , Barca, Madrid , Turin , Hamburg or Berlin all perfectly "safe " locations but no .......it appears that it has to be England ...??

Those places take in many more refugees than England already. 0.0028% of them come to Britain.