(White) Welsh rugby player Liam Williams goes to fancy dress party as...

[mikeyjh]

So why did he go as Wilfred Bony and not Leon Britten, Jonjo Shelvey, Angel Rangel or Gylfi Sigurosson? Because Wilfred Bony is black and that means he gets to black up and it's oh so funny. That's why some people might think that it's not a terribly good idea. Added to that, the ONLY likeness he has to Bony is the fact that he's blacked up.

 

[blue'n'white]

Even if it were 'bigger than Bony' he and the character of Williams set the tone for the debate (if there really must be one).

If one is laughing it off and the other has nothing in his past to suggest this is anything other than a joke, surely that's the end of it.

You just don't get this do you ! It doesn't matter if neither of the protagonists mind about it - it now has to be dragged through social media and further and will probably be debated in Parliament - it'll be on the front page of the Daily Fail tomorrow. People will get offended about it because they've got nothing better in their lives to worry about
I wrote this with tongue tucked firmly in cheek but sadly I realise that it's probably true. What IS this country coming to
If I could find the pictures of me and a couple of mates blacked up and in dresses at a fancy dress party in the 80s as the Three Degrees I'd put them up here but sadly they've been confined to the dustbin of history. Nobody was offended then and nobody should be offended now even though I now realise that to my eternal shame that these were racist AND sexist !! Mea culpa

 

[BadFish]

The person in question in this instance was not offended.
Liam Williams, 23, posted picture of himself dressed as Wilfried Bony
Williams said Bony gave the costume his blessing after criticism

Good for William Bony, he and many others are not going to be offended. Some people however are going to be offended.

You suggested that history has no relevance to those people who are offended by this stuff. I pointed out that it is the weight of history that causes some people to find blacking up offensive.

 

[User removed 4]

Good for William Bony, he and many others are not going to be offended. Some people however are going to be offended.

You suggested that history has no relevance to those people who are offended by this stuff. I pointed out that it is the weight of history that causes some people to find blacking up offensive.

then they quite simply need to get over themselves, slavery isn't within living memory , i find it grossly offensive that the queen shook hands with a murdering ******* like martin McGuiness , but I accepted it for the greater good , anybody, black or white who claims to be 'offended' by blacking up is simply using it as an excuse ,they'd find another one if it wasn't this.

 

[BadFish]

then they quite simply need to get over themselves, slavery isn't within living memory , i find it grossly offensive that the queen shook hands with a murdering ******* like martin McGuiness , but I accepted it for the greater good , anybody, black or white who claims to be 'offended' by blacking up is simply using it as an excuse ,they'd find another one if it wasn't this.

The trouble with this is that actually systemic racism hasn't stopped has it? The hangover from racism and oppression is still very much with us.

I agree that it would be better if people didn't get offended by stuff like this but that is easy to say as I haven't experienced what others have. I don't think I have the right to say what people should and should find offensive.

Possibly some people don't find it so easy to just get over. I can understand that it is possibly just not that easy.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

The trouble with this is that actually systemic racism hasn't stopped has it? The hangover from racism and oppression is still very much with us.

Which is exactly why people making such a fuss over something so small as this is a bad thing for the anti-racism cause. Concentrate on things that matter, not someone blacking up as part of a fancy dress costume.

 

[bobby baxter]

Perhaps someone should actually ask Bony his views? It's easy for a few 'look at me' liberal pc types to declare it's not up to Bony what he thinks but in reality, it is.


Edit: Would it be acceptable if they both went to the same party, Williams blacked up like Bony and Bony whited up like Williams?

Would be difficult for Bony to respond, if he says he isn't offended, he could be accused of ignoring the feelings of those that do feel offended and insulted.

 

[drew]

Would be difficult for Bony to respond, if he says he isn't offended, he could be accused of ignoring the feelings of those that do feel offended and insulted.

And what about my edit?

 

[London Irish]

The "blackface" thing is a huge debate in the States - many view it as an insulting legacy of slavery. It's made its way over here because the world is very flat now with social media. It's a manners thing really, obviously the rugby boy isn't a racist.

 

[W.C.]

So if a black man dresses as a white man, including make up, is he a racist?

Cos there's been a history of that hasn't there...

 

[leigull]

Reminds me of this

 

[W.C.]

then they quite simply need to get over themselves, slavery isn't within living memory , i find it grossly offensive that the queen shook hands with a murdering ******* like martin McGuiness , but I accepted it for the greater good , anybody, black or white who claims to be 'offended' by blacking up is simply using it as an excuse ,they'd find another one if it wasn't this.

You accepted it? So why is it, as a reader of an internet forum, having never met you, I am so well aware of your political leanings?
Are you claiming you've never brought this kind of thing up? Never got angry/abusive about it?

 

[W.C.]

Reminds me of this

 

[Triggaaar]

Remind me, when was white face a form of entertainment enjoyed by black people to belittle and make fun of white folk? It baffles me that people can't see the difference.

But is Liam Williams belittling Wilfried Bony, or looking up to him? I haven't put much thought into it, but I'd think that is the biggest indicator of whether I'd consider this to be offensive or not.

 

[cunning fergus]

You, I and any one with half a brain cell knows that it's different. When a man dresses up as a woman he may wear women's clothes but his characteristics and mannerisms often remain distinctly male. The joke isn't "oh what a funny woman" the joke is "That man's wearing a dress". The man is the subject of the joke and that is the difference, a difference you clearly can't distinguish. When a white man donned the make up of a minstrel the joke wasn't at the expense of him it was the expense of black people. How you and other people can't grasp this simple concept it beyond me.

Well, surely the prejudice aspect isn’t any different is it?

Frankly, this debate should simply be about the motives involved in all cases.

If the motives are without malice and innocent then it should be treated accordingly.

Otherwise this is just another case of censorship. There are plenty of entirely innocent reasons why people dress up, including why white people have blackened their faces. Some of these reasons are historical and cultural, and whilst they are now perceived to be unfashionable cultural baggage by the bed wetting community, they are nonetheless woven into the fabric of many societies.

In case you are not aware this is a significant issue in Holland currently……………

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/61376/black-pete-harmless-tradition-or-racist-throwback

This is a country where polls suggest 91% of the Dutch consider their tradition as not racist………………..and which probably tells you where you are on this type of debate.

The UK has a tradition too, no doubt you would have been a supporter of this act back in the day………………you daft fascist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Act

 

[BigGully]

I doubt anyone is really offended, its not offensive.

I think we just have a noisy minority that subscribe to the unwritten code of modern fancy dress, no Adolph Hilters or 'Blacking Up', there doesnt seem to be anything worthwhile in their ramblings about slavery, oppression whilst a sportsman dresses up as another multi millionairre sportsman, probably mates or colleagues anyway.

 

[User removed 4]

You accepted it? So why is it, as a reader of an internet forum, having never met you, I am so well aware of your political leanings?
Are you claiming you've never brought this kind of thing up? Never got angry/abusive about it?

I've certainly never criticised the gfa which is how the the incidents with the likes of McGuiness and adams come about , are you also saying that because of my views on the incident in the original post that I shouldn't have views on anything else controversial ?

 

[User removed 4]

' Ah , this post has given the lie to my pitiful whining so I'll deflect it by putting a smiley and hope nobody comments'.

 

[daveinprague]

'Ah, the annual NSC racism debate, with a bunch of white men, mostly with right wing views explaining it all'.

Wonder if the outcome will be different this year? haha

Any black people involved in the 'debate' this year?

 

[mikeyjh]

But is Liam Williams belittling Wilfried Bony, or looking up to him? I haven't put much thought into it, but I'd think that is the biggest indicator of whether I'd consider this to be offensive or not.

I'm not sure anyone has ever worn fancy dress to 'look up' to someone? He's basically saying that the only thing that stands out about Bony is that he's black (and that he plays for Swansea). Why not wear a massive strap on to throw a stereotype in to the mix.