West Sussex v East Sussex

[ManOfSussex]

I am Tunbridge Wells born and bred but left after 25 years, sadly I do not know which part Sussex had, I know it's down the Pantiles way and there is/was the Sussex pub but I no not where the border was.

Is it High Brooms ?

It was Broadwater Down.

 

[Sussaxon]

I am Tunbridge Wells born and bred but left after 25 years, sadly I do not know which part Sussex had, I know it's down the Pantiles way and there is/was the Sussex pub but I no not where the border was.

I don't understand why people keep talking in the past tense? No legislation has ever abolished Britain's historic counties or traditional county boundaries.

When County Councils were established in 1888, the Local Government Act 1888 created a whole new set of statutorily defined administrative areas covering the whole of England and Wales, terming them “administrative counties” (two-tier local government areas) and “county boroughs” (single-tier local government areas). The Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889 created similar administrative areas in Scotland.

No legislation changed or abolished traditional counties or their historic boundaries. This fact is evident from the General Register Office’s Census Report of 1891. This distinguished between what it called the “Ancient or Geographical Counties” and the new “administrative counties”. It made it clear that the two were distinct entities and that the former still existed. It provided detailed population statistics for both sets in its 1891, 1901 and 1911 reports.

Basically an entirely new set of 'counties' were created in 1888 to carry on the purposes of administration, whereas the traditional counties still exist to this very day!

Therefore, despite being administered by Kent County Council ("administrative county"); Broadwater Down is still very much a part of the County of Sussex ("Ancient or Geographical County")!

A map displaying the true, historic, traditional, geographical, ancient, real county boundary around Broadwater Down can be found here...
http://wikishire.co.uk/map/#Broadwater Down@51.115,0.250/centre=51.110,0.239/zoom=12/base=outline
You may also be interested in the the county boundary around Lamberhurst too.

This all highlights that whatever future administrative boundary and local authority changes the future will bring; The County of Sussex will always exist and never change!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I don't understand why people keep talking in the past tense? No legislation has ever abolished Britain's historic counties or traditional county boundaries.

When County Councils were established in 1888, the Local Government Act 1888 created a whole new set of statutorily defined administrative areas covering the whole of England and Wales, terming them “administrative counties” (two-tier local government areas) and “county boroughs” (single-tier local government areas). The Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889 created similar administrative areas in Scotland.

No legislation changed or abolished traditional counties or their historic boundaries. This fact is evident from the General Register Office’s Census Report of 1891. This distinguished between what it called the “Ancient or Geographical Counties” and the new “administrative counties”. It made it clear that the two were distinct entities and that the former still existed. It provided detailed population statistics for both sets in its 1891, 1901 and 1911 reports.

Basically an entirely new set of 'counties' were created in 1888 to carry on the purposes of administration, whereas the traditional counties still exist to this very day!

Therefore, despite being administered by Kent County Council ("administrative county"); Broadwater Down is still very much a part of the County of Sussex ("Ancient or Geographical County")!

A map displaying the true, historic, traditional, geographical, ancient, real county boundary around Broadwater Down can be found here...
http://wikishire.co.uk/map/#Broadwater Down@51.115,0.250/centre=51.110,0.239/zoom=12/base=outline
You may also be interested in the the county boundary around Lamberhurst too.

This all highlights that whatever future administrative boundary and local authority changes the future will bring; The County of Sussex will always exist and never change!

I like your sentiment. However, to say counties won't ever change is just judging boundaries from another arbitrarily pre determined point in time. For instance, were we to take the kingdom of Sussex' largest boundary, we would include much of Hampshire and the isle of Wight.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Is it High Brooms ?

I think it is the Pantiles area.

 

[Sussaxon]

I like your sentiment. However, to say counties won't ever change is just judging boundaries from another arbitrarily pre determined point in time. For instance, were we to take the kingdom of Sussex' largest boundary, we would include much of Hampshire and the isle of Wight.

Well you obviously have to start from when legislation separated "administrative counties" from "Ancient/Geographical Counties", and that was in 1888.

There are currently plans to combine East Sussex County Council, West Sussex County Council and Surrey County Council to create a larger administrative area. Should this go ahead we could all be living in an area rebranded as "Southernshire" or similar name. Then over time people will start saying "Sussex was abolished in 2020" or "Sussex doesn't exist anymore" or "Where is Lewes?... It's in Southernshire". This happened in Cumberland, Westmorland etc with "Cumbria" despite no legislation changing the traditional counties and that could easily happen here in Sussex. And that would be very very sad indeed to think we've basically binned over 1000 years of Sussaxon heritage, identity and culture.

Yes, populations and needs change, so administrations and admin boundaries need to change, but this should have no affect on our local identity. Everyone needs to separate in their minds administrative areas and the true counties. Otherwise we'll lose who we are!

 

[Danny-Boy]

You live in a shopping centre ?

a lot of Eastbourne oldies do during the day. Just to stay in the warm..

 

[Danny-Boy]

Well you obviously have to start from when legislation separated "administrative counties" from "Ancient/Geographical Counties", and that was in 1888.

There are currently plans to combine East Sussex County Council, West Sussex County Council and Surrey County Council to create a larger administrative area. Should this go ahead we could all be living in an area rebranded as "Southernshire" or similar name. Then over time people will start saying "Sussex was abolished in 2020" or "Sussex doesn't exist anymore" or "Where is Lewes?... It's in Southernshire". This happened in Cumberland, Westmorland etc with "Cumbria" despite no legislation changing the traditional counties and that could easily happen here in Sussex. And that would be very very sad indeed to think we've basically binned over 1000 years of Sussaxon heritage, identity and culture.

Yes, populations and needs change, so administrations and admin boundaries need to change, but this should have no affect on our local identity. Everyone needs to separate in their minds administrative areas and the true counties. Otherwise we'll lose who we are!

Could end up as Surrex or Sussey..

 

[Danny-Boy]

I don't understand why people keep talking in the past tense? No legislation has ever abolished Britain's historic counties or traditional county boundaries.

When County Councils were established in 1888, the Local Government Act 1888 created a whole new set of statutorily defined administrative areas covering the whole of England and Wales, terming them “administrative counties” (two-tier local government areas) and “county boroughs” (single-tier local government areas). The Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889 created similar administrative areas in Scotland.

No legislation changed or abolished traditional counties or their historic boundaries. This fact is evident from the General Register Office’s Census Report of 1891. This distinguished between what it called the “Ancient or Geographical Counties” and the new “administrative counties”. It made it clear that the two were distinct entities and that the former still existed. It provided detailed population statistics for both sets in its 1891, 1901 and 1911 reports.


This all highlights that whatever future administrative boundary and local authority changes the future will bring; The County of Sussex will always exist and never change!

What happened to Rutland then?

 

[Sussaxon]

What happened to Rutland then?

Nothing actually ever happened to Rutland, i.e. the Geographical/Ancient/Traditional/Historic county.

What happened was that the Local Government Act 1972 abolished Rutland County Council and subsequently became part of Leicestershire County Council from 1974. In 1997 Rutland County Council District Council was created as a result of a recommendation in 1994 by The Local Government Commission that Rutland District Council should become a unitary authority independent of Leicestershire County Council.

But throughout all of this the County of Rutland remained unchanged and is England's smallest county.

 

[Sussaxon]

Could end up as Surrex or Sussey..

...or "Weyside"

 

[Norman Potting]

Taken today in Churchill Square among the collection of County calendars, apologies for quality (lack of). Something missing from there surely, enough to prompt Daily Mail style OUTRAGE and FURY and a march from the East Sussex massive on Calendar Club??

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Well you obviously have to start from when legislation separated "administrative counties" from "Ancient/Geographical Counties", and that was in 1888.

There are currently plans to combine East Sussex County Council, West Sussex County Council and Surrey County Council to create a larger administrative area. Should this go ahead we could all be living in an area rebranded as "Southernshire" or similar name. Then over time people will start saying "Sussex was abolished in 2020" or "Sussex doesn't exist anymore" or "Where is Lewes?... It's in Southernshire". This happened in Cumberland, Westmorland etc with "Cumbria" despite no legislation changing the traditional counties and that could easily happen here in Sussex. And that would be very very sad indeed to think we've basically binned over 1000 years of Sussaxon heritage, identity and culture.

Yes, populations and needs change, so administrations and admin boundaries need to change, but this should have no affect on our local identity. Everyone needs to separate in their minds administrative areas and the true counties. Otherwise we'll lose who we are!

A new county merged with Surrey? Over my dead body.