[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Machiavelli]

I'd happily settle for a system whereby the number of seats any party gets in parliament actually reflects the number of votes they get from the electorate

Would be interested in your explanation as to how this could work

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Would be interested in your explanation as to how this could work

Proportional Representation. As used by every country in Europe except us, and Belarus.
It’s how we elected the 75 MEPs that went to the European Parliamen.

 

[Peteinblack]

Would be interested in your explanation as to how this could work

Simples - 27% of votes cast = 27% of seats in the House of Commons.

Currently, under FPTP, a party can win a comfortable 66 seat majority in the House of Commons - and govern for the next 5 years - on just 36% of votes cast (as New Labour did in the 2005 general election).

 

[WATFORD zero]

Would be interested in your explanation as to how this could work

Personally, I'd probably go for Party List , although I believe that Mixed Member Proportional Representation and Single Transferrable vote would also give a far better reflection of what the Electorate want than the current FPTP, but these are details.

I believe the far wider impact would be the break up of the current two party system and the current 'unofficial coalitions' which uneasily exist in the major parties purely in the pursuit of power. All this does (as ably proven over the last few years) is take focus away from actual Governing and are certainly not to the benefit of those being governed, whilst giving the electorate a choice of Corbyn v Johnson

I also believe that in turn, as these coalitions break, it would allow people to vote for parties that more accurately reflect their views and force more grown up political coalitions moving us away from the current red/blue rosette farce.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one

 

[Machiavelli]

My point was that they wouldn't be 'seats' aka constituencies. Pedants frequent this thread, as well as dreamers.

 

[Peteinblack]

My point was that they wouldn't be 'seats' aka constituencies. Pedants frequent this thread, as well as dreamers.

Depends on which type of PR was adopted - PR being a principle rather than a specific electoral system. Additional Member System (used in Scottish and Welsh elections), and Single Transferable Vote (used in Northern Ireland), both blend proportionality with traditional constituencies/seats.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

My point was that they wouldn't be 'seats' aka constituencies. Pedants frequent this thread, as well as dreamers.

You're right, In the sense that having constituency MPs is clearly beneficial to voters, and also that the constituency system allows us to directly vote out dodgy individuals in a way that a party-list system does not.

I believe the current polarisation of our politics and the underlying support of minor parties means that implementing a PR system is a no brainer, but i don't know how to resolve those two issues above. I'm sure there are ways i haven't thought of though.

 

[Machiavelli]

Depends on which type of PR was adopted - PR being a principle rather than a specific electoral system. Additional Member System (used in Scottish and Welsh elections), and Single Transferable Vote (used in Northern Ireland), both blend proportionality with traditional constituencies/seats.

Yes, I ought to know about these things, but find it a little tricky to comprehend. I've just been searching wiki courtesy of WZ's suggestions. Cracking fun on Saturday nights, me.

 

[Randy McNob]

 

[Pevenseagull]

Grant Schapps on TV just now implied that the overspend and faliure of the HS2 network project is due to increased costs arising from environmental concerns.

It seems the new Tory 3 word slogan should be "f*** the environment".

 

[Hugo Rune]

Depends on which type of PR was adopted - PR being a principle rather than a specific electoral system. Additional Member System (used in Scottish and Welsh elections), and Single Transferable Vote (used in Northern Ireland), both blend proportionality with traditional constituencies/seats.

Indeed. I did the Math.

Operate PR on a local level and instead of this in 2019:

2019 Election results in East Sussex​

The general election results for East Sussex are on the BBC website:

1. Bexhill and Battle – Conservative hold
2. Brighton Kemptown (includes Peacehaven) – Labour hold
3. Eastbourne – Conservative gain from Liberal Democrat
4. Hastings and Rye – Conservative hold
5. Lewes – Conservative hold
6. Wealden – Conservative hold

East Sussex returns 3 Tories. Extrapolate across the Country and you get a much more representative parliament, one that does not have the division of this country in its interest. The last 13 years have proved beyond doubt that FPTP is done (unless you are Belorussian I guess).

 

[nicko31]

Grant Schapps on TV just now implied that the overspend and faliure of the HS2 network project is due to increased costs arising from environmental concerns.

It seems the new Tory 3 word slogan should be "f*** the environment".

They stoop lower and lower every day. It will be interesting to see if the war on the green push shifts the polls.

 

[chickens]

They stoop lower and lower every day. It will be interesting to see if the war on the green push shifts the polls.

I honestly feel the Conservative Party are driving down a cul-de-sac at high speed (despite it being a 20 zone.). They’ve seen some (relative) success in one by-election, and their “master strategists” have extrapolated from that to make anti-environment more visibly a central plank of their strategy.

I don’t believe that this is the vote winner they think it is, I’m inclined to feel most decent voters of all stripes would rather not see the planet burning, and will do their bit to prevent it. The Conservatives were just fortunate in the by-election coinciding with a local wave of annoyance at the expansion of the ULEZ zone. Six months from now, everyone will have adjusted and forgotten it was ever any different.

We’ll find out at the polls.

 

[Nobby]

I honestly feel the Conservative Party are driving down a cul-de-sac at high speed (despite it being a 20 zone.). They’ve seen some (relative) success in one by-election, and their “master strategists” have extrapolated from that to make anti-environment more visibly a central plank of their strategy.

I don’t believe that this is the vote winner they think it is, I’m inclined to feel most decent voters of all stripes would rather not see the planet burning, and will do their bit to prevent it. The Conservatives were just fortunate in the by-election coinciding with a local wave of annoyance at the expansion of the ULEZ zone. Six months from now, everyone will have adjusted and forgotten it was ever any different.

We’ll find out at the polls.

Let's hope so - but there are worrying signs. Wales going 20mph seems to have enraged the speeding motorists and the non speeding motorists alike. Seen as just another tax. And the ULEZ zone was and is hated.

I see that the attack dog press are now openly blaming eco and green policies for all of our ills. Well, and of course, the immigrants.

Why are there so many stupid people in our country who actually believe this crap?
Maybe there aren't many "decent voters of all stripes". Most don't seem to be able to see beyond tomorrow.

Here are some of today's headlines
Telegraph - Sunak will rip up green rules to build 140,000 new homes.
Express - Rishi to put Labour leader on the spot after public backs Tory shift on Net Zero
Mail - "after seeing sense on net zero"
Sun - Ministers have put local councils on standby for an election in the Spring

Jeez - please can we just kick them out

 

[The Clamp]

This government are a f***ing disgrace. And so is anyone that votes for them.

Kick. Them. Out.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Home Secretary is commenting on a case which is sub judice. That alone is a sackable or resignation issue.
PS the sub judice rule applies to Nsc too.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Conference coming up.


Expect a cut in inheritance tax (in 2021 3.73% of deaths in UK attracted this ..... source UK Government).

This.will be publicised around Peterlee, Hull Middlesbrough, Blackpool etc as good for hard working familiies as they're not going to be taxed on the proceeds from their parents £150K ex council house as long as they vote the Tories back in. ....and they won't pay meat tax or be required to spend 10s of thousands of pounds on solar panels.


(That Sue Ellen thing is utterly not shocking.)

 

[nicko31]

Use to think he was OK

James Cracknell: Olympic rower chosen as Conservative candidate

James Cracknell is said to be the "clear choice" of Conservative party members in Colchester.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Pevenseagull]

As an aside, when PMQs is next held, Sunak will have participated 7 times in 5 months.

And across those sessions will have probably talked about Corbyn for about half an hour.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Home Secretary is commenting on a case which is sub judice. That alone is a sackable or resignation issue.
PS the sub judice rule applies to Nsc too.

Government Ministers breaking the law has been standard for a few years now from the very top down