To those that want Mickey out...

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

Oh...........and we should not have got rid of Guy Butters, his contribution both on and off the pitch was in my view vastly underrated.

Completely agree with that last point about Butters which has not been mentioned much on here. His lack of pace was not as much of an issue as some made out (like Fozzie, he never had much anyway), but his positional play and ability to lead the back 4 have not yet been replaced - hence the recent abysmal defensive displays. The same could be said for Chippie in midfield. We still lack a midfield general who can lead, tackle, pass, shoot etc

 

[hans kraay fan club]

1. I agree, but perhaps there are things taking placed behind closed doors that we are not aware of. It was certainly the case with DW.

2. I agree it takes time, some of the football played at the start of the season was good (Crewe and Southend come to mind), some has been shit. To write MA off as a long ball merchant is a bit harsh, we didn't play such football the first time he was here.

3. I've never said that was the case. Loanees are surely just as much the responsibility of Barry Lloyd as there are MA or DW. Bazza's track record is as mixed as anyone else's. For every Garry Nelson, Mike Small, John Byrne etc there was a Mark Farringdon.

At the start of the season I thought we would be top half but no guarantee for playoffs. The rationale behind this is that this season the opposition are better. MK Dons, Posh, Leeds, Leicester and Scunny are the best teams in the division. We should be in a chasing pack of about half a dozen including the likes of Millwall et al chasing the final playoff place..........and at present we are not, so people are unhappy, and rightly so. Changing the manager will not necessarily address that issue this season.

Oh...........and we should not have got rid of Guy Butters, his contribution both on and off the pitch was in my view vastly underrated.

1. the buck has to stop with the manager, when the same group of players are performing LESS effectively.

2. Crewe we did our best to throw away, and Southend was universally acknowledged as shit until the late sending off. Great result, but not necessarily evidence of great football.

3. My point is that when we signed Savage, a million words were spunked on here about that being all because of Mickey Adams. Again when Johnson signed it was all down to the attraction of working with Adams. Since ADams came back I think Lloyds role has diminished significantly.

Look at how many of the players signed are Adams' old boys; Virgo, Hawkins, McLeod, Savage, Thornton, etc...


Leeds were here last year. Scunny and Leicester no better than Forest and Swansea. Inevitably the promoted teams have momentum, but that's no different to any other year.

You'll get no argument from me about Butters. As I said when the contracts were under discussion, we hadn't brought a centre back through from the youth set up since Darren Newman, until Guy came along. Then all of a sudden - Lynch, Elphick, Hinshelwood, Pearson, El Abd, etc..

 

[Knotty]

1. I agree, but perhaps there are things taking placed behind closed doors that we are not aware of. It was certainly the case with DW.

2. I agree it takes time, some of the football played at the start of the season was good (Crewe and Southend come to mind), some has been shit. To write MA off as a long ball merchant is a bit harsh, we didn't play such football the first time he was here.

3. I've never said that was the case. Loanees are surely just as much the responsibility of Barry Lloyd as there are MA or DW. Bazza's track record is as mixed as anyone else's. For every Garry Nelson, Mike Small, John Byrne etc there was a Mark Farringdon.

At the start of the season I thought we would be top half but no guarantee for playoffs. The rationale behind this is that this season the opposition are better. MK Dons, Posh, Leeds, Leicester and Scunny are the best teams in the division. We should be in a chasing pack of about half a dozen including the likes of Millwall et al chasing the final playoff place..........and at present we are not, so people are unhappy, and rightly so. Changing the manager will not necessarily address that issue this season.

Oh...........and we should not have got rid of Guy Butters, his contribution both on and off the pitch was in my view vastly underrated.

Good to see some reasoned views, with perspective and an understanding that we might not know everything that goes on behind the scenes and why things are done. I said in a post earlier this week that NSC depresses me more at he moment than the football. Thanks EP, you've cheered me up!

 

[Seagull73]

Good to see some reasoned views, with perspective and an understanding that we might not know everything that goes on behind the scenes and why things are done. I said in a post earlier this week that NSC depresses me more at he moment than the football. Thanks EP, you've cheered me up!

I agree. NSC has become a bitch-fest for people who try to impart their views the loudest, and it's really depressing.

 

[Icy Gull]

. I said in a post earlier this week that NSC depresses me more at he moment than the football. !

Lucky you. I try to ignore or scan through anything I don't like on NSC, takes about 3 mins as opposed to actually watching the absolute shite being served up most of the time over 90 minutes, which I find way more depressing.

 

[Seagull73]

Lucky you. I try to ignore or scan through anything I don't like on NSC, takes about 3 mins as opposed to actually watching the absolute shite being served up most of the time over 90 minutes, which I find way more depressing.

Stop going then. No more effective way to get a message across than voting with your feet. At least it might cheer you up.

 

[Icy Gull]

Stop going then. No more effective way to get a message across than voting with your feet. At least it might cheer you up.

I mostly have. Maybe a good solution in your eyes but it's not doing the club much good taking into account the many who seem to have done the same. Hope that cheers you up.

 

[Seagull73]

I mostly have. Maybe a good solution in your eyes but it's not doing the club much good taking into account the many who seem to have done the same. Hope that cheers you up.

Oh please don't mistake me for someone who gives a shit, I'm just trying to help you find ways to not be such a depressive. Besides which, if you have mostly stopped going, there aren't many 90 minutes that depress you know, surely?

 

[Da Man Clay]

For me Adams inherited the core of a very good squad.

Kuipers, Sullivan

Whing, El-Abd, Lynch, Elphick, Pearson

Fraser, Cox, Thomson, Loft, Chamberlain

Murray, Forster, Robinson, Gatting, Dixon

Maybe a couple I've forgotten, and there is some dead wood there, but overall it is decent and Wilkins obviously had plans of what he was going to do build on the promising base. Adams added six players of his own in the summer. He inherited a bad squad? Doesn't wash.

There is SOME dead wood in there?! Christ - Peason and Sullivan had never played a game - Chamberlain had played about two and was (and still is) nowhere near first team football. Fraser, Loft, Gatting and Dixon quite plainly aren't league 1 footballers.

 

[Silent Bob]

There is SOME dead wood in there?! Christ - Peason and Sullivan had never played a game - Chamberlain had played about two and was (and still is) nowhere near first team football. Fraser, Loft, Gatting and Dixon quite plainly aren't league 1 footballers.

Pearson has never played a game, two years ago Elphick hadn't. Not that he is that good but from what I've seen he's a decent prospect. And Sullivan has shown he's a capable number 2.

I thought what I said was fairly straightforward but it seems a number of people can't understand and think that what I was actually saying is that Dixon and Gatting are the best players in the world or something.

It was the CORE of a decent squad, ie it was something to work with. SOME of the building blocks of a very good squad were already in place. THIS DOES NOT MEAN TOMMY FRASER IS BETTER THAN STEVEN GERRARD. It means there are some good players there and the beginnings of a side that is capable of pushing for the top 6.

In case anyone still doesn't understand what I've just said, let's break it down for you.

Kuipers, Sullivan - A very good number one, and as we have seen a capable number two with potential. We also would very likely have brought in another keeper.

Whing, Elphick, Lynch - All very solid defenders at this level. El-Abd is a decent utility player and As I said Pearson to me looks a decent prospect.

Cox - People can criticise as much as they like but he still consistently set up goals and scored a few too. Thomson, average. Fraser, not bad backup. Chamberlain impressed me in our successful youth team but doesn't seem to have kicked on, obviously Wilkins though the same but hoped to still get something out of him hence the 6 month contract. Loft to be fair is shit.

Forster and Murray are one of the best front twos in the league. Robinson blows extremely hot and cold but still not a bad backup. Obviously Gatting and Dixon are useless and we needed to add another striking option.


OBVIOUSLY we needed to sign players because when Adams came in Wilkins had just released ten, but what Adams inherited in May was not a total write off in need of complete rebuilding from the ground up. I didn't realise that was so controversial, or difficult to understand.