The ultimate REFERENDUM thread

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

On a side note. Look at how disorganised the "capital of Europe" Brussels is. Six fracking police forces in one tiny city none of whom talk to each other and a teeming mass of jihadis and disaffected marginalised poor living in tiny Malbeek. If you have ever been to Brussels you will know just how easy it is to wander into the EU capital buildings, almost no security anywhere and that shower being the pinnacle of the European Union.

Dear god.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

On a side note. Look at how disorganised the "capital of Europe" Brussels is. Six fracking police forces in one tiny city none of whom talk to each other and a teeming mass of jihadis and disaffected marginalised poor living in tiny Malbeek. If you have ever been to Brussels you will know just how easy it is to wander into the EU capital buildings, almost no security anywhere and that shower being the pinnacle of the European Union.

Dear god.

Indeed, at least their not exacerbating the problem by letting in hundreds of thousands of young men from a warzone teaming with radical extremists ... oh wait a minute.

 

[5ways]

Good man. Out of interest if God forbid we had an attack in this country in the next month perpetrated by one or more individuals who gained easier access to this country because of free movement would it change your opinion/vote?

I'm capable of changing my opinion if the facts change but I don't think it is firstly possible or secondly desirable to prevent the free movement of European people in Europe. Practically I don't know how or why if someone who should be stopped could be if we were outside the EU. If he's on the 'no' list then he's on the list. Why would making someone apply for a visa make any difference to what they already have to do which is present a passport which is scanned and logged in the system. Am I missing something?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I can understand the desire to retain free movement after all who doesn't want to just pop over to Paris or Bruge for a lovely weekend. Trouble is these days it also means terrorists can just pop over non existent borders committing appalling atrocities, France/Belgium being the obvious example. Most of the terrorists were 'European people/citizens' I know many countries are already unilaterally reinstating border controls, apparently they view the protection of their citizens as a higher priority than a commitment to a wider EU project. As for the Visa point it just introduces a higher threshold of security which we can control and vary commensurate with the threat rather than just showing a passport.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I can understand the desire to retain free movement after all who doesn't want to just pop over to Paris or Bruge for a lovely weekend. Trouble is these days it also means terrorists can just pop over non existent borders committing appalling atrocities, France/Belgium being the obvious example. Most of the terrorists were 'European people/citizens' I know many countries are already unilaterally reinstating border controls, apparently they view the protection of their citizens as a higher priority than a commitment to a wider EU project. As for the Visa point it just introduces a higher threshold of security which we can control and vary commensurate with the threat rather than just showing a passport.

Out of that gang in Brussels: one had been gripped by the Turks on the Syrian border and deported him back to Belgium with a massive rec flag on his head saying "I am a terrorist" and what did the Belgians do? Sweet FA. Another travelled to Verviers via the UK on a forged passport, and what happens? He slips through the "net" of French security and goes and blows himself to smithereens in the departure lounge at Brussels international.

I don't know who said it but it's true "there's more and more of these suicide bombers and, at the same time, less and less"

 

[Soulman]

Grow a pair of balls, vote out

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Out of that gang in Brussels: one had been gripped by the Turks on the Syrian border and deported him back to Belgium with a massive rec flag on his head saying "I am a terrorist" and what did the Belgians do? Sweet FA. Another travelled to Verviers via the UK on a forged passport, and what happens? He slips through the "net" of French security and goes and blows himself to smithereens in the departure lounge at Brussels international.

I don't know who said it but it's true "there's more and more of these suicide bombers and, at the same time, less and less"

Belgium has admitted that it made "errors" relating to one of the Brussels attackers.
Turkey has said it arrested and deported Brahim el-Bakraoui last June, warning Belgium he was a "foreign fighter" - but was "ignored".
The Belgian interior and justice ministers said they had offered to resign over this but added that the prime minister refused to let them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35895416

No one taking the blame. Merkel invites a million plus refugee/migrants to Europe with inevitable consequences no one takes the blame. Yet some are happy to partially outsource our security to these people. Not sure how high the body count has to get before Europe see's sense

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Grow a pair of balls, vote out

Don't worry fella. The silent majority and all that. Everyone I know is an out.

 

[crookie]

We are not in the Schengen Zone, yet I don't recall being seriously inconvenienced by having my passport checked in my last visits to France and Holland

 

[The Rivet]

We are not in the Schengen Zone, yet I don't recall being seriously inconvenienced by having my passport checked in my last visits to France and Holland

I think everyone at every border should be prepared to prove who they are and where they come from before entry is offered.
Our safety versus my time sacrifice. Great deal.

 

[crookie]

I think everyone at every border should be prepared to prove who they are and where they come from before entry is offered.
Our safety versus my time sacrifice. Great deal.

Agree, was the gist of my post, didn't feel inconvenienced at all. More reassured

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It is interesting that Intelligence people seem not to worry so much about whether we are in or out. Top level intelligence services - UK, USA, Israel, France - deal with each other irrespective of whether one is in the EU or not. In or out? Neither here nor there. On the other hand, the police tend to want us to remain in the EU, hence the Met Commissioner's words last week, because it apparently ensures (unless there's a cock-up presumably) very high levels of information exchange. The chief constable of Northern Ireland during some of the Troubles waded in this week with a ferocious attack on people using the Brussels outrage as a reason to leave the EU. He called their arguments 'simplistic' and ignorant of history. His words not mine. I gather that some of the people on here are experts on the subject - I'm not so I can only listen to what people say on one side or the other.

I am impressed though by reading that when MPs voted last year to rejoin the Prum Convention, which strengthens EU police co-operation, among those arguing most forcefully for it were some of the House's greatest eurosceptics.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Leaving EU 'devastating for young', says Nicky Morgan

Why can't you defend a position by being positive about that, rather than negative about the alternative?

Shouldn't the headline be 'EU gives young opportunities' or something. Then say what those opportunities are. This is just feeding the whole 'fear' agenda. The job opportunities the EU offers young people is real, she should have statistics available to support this and real life experiences to tell. Whether leaving the EU is devastating or not is hypothetical, but that is what she has led with, not the actual benefit the EU gives as it stands.

It is a poor strategy in my opinion. This is negativity about an alternative rather than positivity about the thing she wants us to vote for.

 

[heathgate]

Don't worry fella. The silent majority and all that. Everyone I know is an out.

In fact its the same here in the West country bar one of my mates, all OUT,... and this is a broad range of proffessionals, from builders to IT professionals and a lot inbetween, even one surgeon. So I am still feeling that the vote will be broadly in line with the 60-40 in favour of out that I predicted last month, roll on 23rd June.

 

[jameswestport]

out

 

[Bold Seagull]

In fact its the same here in the West country bar one of my mates, all OUT,... and this is a broad range of proffessionals, from builders to IT professionals and a lot inbetween, even one surgeon. So I am still feeling that the vote will be broadly in line with the 60-40 in favour of out that I predicted last month, roll on 23rd June.

It will go like the Scottish referendum. Lots of build up, everyone telling each other they're voting out, everyone thinking it's going to happen, but crunch time, tick in the box with one big economic unknown during hard times, and it will remain as the status quo.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agree, was the gist of my post, didn't feel inconvenienced at all. More reassured

I feel inconvenienced.

 

[heathgate]

It will go like the Scottish referendum. Lots of build up, everyone telling each other they're voting out, everyone thinking it's going to happen, but crunch time, tick in the box with one big economic unknown during hard times, and it will remain as the status quo.

Very few consider the economics as priority in making their decision... it's migration/border controls and home democracy that's at the forefront....it will be a comfortable out.

 

[beorhthelm]

It will go like the Scottish referendum. Lots of build up, everyone telling each other they're voting out, everyone thinking it's going to happen, but crunch time, tick in the box with one big economic unknown during hard times, and it will remain as the status quo.

i fear the silent majority in this case will come out in favour of remaining. this is why focus on the fear of leaving rather than the benefits of staying, to work on this group.

 

[cardboard]

I'm out