The Lewes Bonfire Thread

[BensGrandad]

I have never been to Lewes on 5th Nov, never even thought about going, but hearing about it on SCR during the morning and hearing about the traffic problems that were forseen whilst driving to Worthing my wife said ' we should go there next year by train to see what it is all about'. Is that not typical of most people curious as to what the fuss is about.

 

[shingle]

I have lived in Lewes for 23 years, moved here from Brighton as Mrs Shingle is a Lewesian, and must say as an 'outsider' that I've never quite got the 'Bonfire' thing and how much of a special night it is for local people.

My gripe is that at 6am on the morning of the 5th a small minority of the townspeople change into aggressive, rude twats, particularly if they're part of a procession. I've photographed some of the worlds greatest carnivals without a problem, the only problems I ever encounter whilst taking pictures are at Lewes, where I live, and in particular with Cliffe bonfire society who I find to be the most militant, aggressive, unfriendly and yes, cliquey.

Cliffe = The Millwall of the Bonfire world

ggrrr, rant over.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I have lived in Lewes for 23 years, moved here from Brighton as Mrs Shingle is a Lewesian, and must say as an 'outsider' that I've never quite got the 'Bonfire' thing and how much of a special night it is for local people.

My gripe is that at 6am on the morning of the 5th a small minority of the townspeople change into aggressive, rude twats, particularly if they're part of a procession. I've photographed some of the worlds greatest carnivals without a problem, the only problems I ever encounter whilst taking pictures are at Lewes, where I live, and in particular with Cliffe bonfire society who I find to be the most militant, aggressive, unfriendly and yes, cliquey.

Cliffe = The Millwall of the Bonfire world

ggrrr, rant over.

Just out of curiousity, what were you taking the photos for (personal or press etc..) and from whereabouts (on the pavement, on the firesite, or in the road while the procession passed)?

 

[shingle]

Just out of curiousity, what were you taking the photos for (personal or press etc..) and from whereabouts (on the pavement, on the firesite, or in the road while the procession passed)?

Personal (as I am interested in all things Lewes) and agency/photolibrary (business)

on the pavement most of the time,

and I sometimes encroached, ever so slightly onto the road when the procession was getting ready to start, and when the procession stopped,

and in the road, at 1am at cliffe corner for bonfire prayers. Very discreet throughout the evening in fact as I know how funny they can get.

Still had grief though with pissheads throwing their weight around.

 

[shingle]

Although come to think of it. ....It's a very similar atmosphere in Siena, Italy during the Palio with people from Florence being considered as outsiders, and tourists being discouraged from coming into the city, and the contradas saying that the whole event would carry on if there were just local people in the campo

You can just replace the Bonfire societies with the Contradas, they are one and the same.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Actually I think it was a former ANGLICAN vicar of Ringmer; but he was so high church he might of as well have been RC, all lace surpluses and incense. And as for the young acolytes he used to have staying at the vicarage.............

As someone else on here as stated, if you don't like, don't go. I'm an exiled local and whilst I like the idea of the tradition and the perverse attitude of the societies; as an event it kind of leaves me cold. So I just say good luck to 'em, let 'em get on with it and when I was living down there just didn't bother going into town that night. If you aren't a participant I think its worth seeing once every 10-15 years for the experience but not every year.

The one I am talking about was most definitely a Roman Catholic Priest of St Pancras Church in Ireland's Lane, I remember it well. I spose maybe theres some sort of redeeming feature in the idea that they are willing to burn effigies of their objectors, whatever denomination they come from...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The Seagull's Revenge

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.1818971.0.bonfire_reveller_is_on_the_mend.php

Bonfire reveller is on the mend
By Miles Godfrey

A woman seriously injured at Lewes bonfire was hurt as a controversial model of an Albion seagull was blown apart by fireworks, witnesses said.

Kalvinder Gahir, who is in her 20s and from St Anne's Crescent, Lewes, was hit on the head by a piece of flaming wood as the celebrations came to an end on Monday night.

Police launched an investigation, saying they could not rule out foul play.

However, health and safety bosses have taken over the investigation and believe it was an accident.

Miss Gahir suffered a fractured skull and was initially taken to the Royal Sussex County Hospital in Brighton.

The injuries were so severe she was transferred to the Hurstwood Park Neurological Centre in Haywards Heath.

Yesterday doctors said her condition had vastly improved.

It is understood Miss Gahir's family has been at her bedside since the incident took place.

Sussex Police's initial reports suggested the wood appeared to fly from the embers of the bonfire at the Cliffe Bonfire Society's site.

Reports said the bonfire was being doused at the time.

However, eyewitnesses claimed it happened when the giant effigy of a seagull - a reference to Brighton and Hove Albion and its succesful campaign to build its new stadium at Falmer - was blown up with fireworks.

Posting on The Argus website, Fergal Kilroy, from London, said: "I was at the site when the incident occurred and it happened when they blew up the Albion seagull. I saw the piece of wood come flying out and fell directly on to this woman."

Yesterday the Cliffe Bonfire Society issued a statement, saying: "At this stage we are not aware of the identity or condition of the lady who was injured at our bonfire site but we wish her well and hope she has a full and speedy recovery.

"It is unclear what caused the accident and it would be unwise to speculate until the facts have been established.

"We are working closely with the environmental health department from Lewes District Council."

7:25am today

 

[Lord Bracknell]

[quote Lord B] "we will not tolerate the spectators throwing bangers whilst it's perfectly ok for bonfire members to do so"

That's not what I said. I said this:-

As for "outsiders" ... all I will say is this.

The vast, vast majority are no trouble. They enjoy themselves immensely. The problems arise when idiots turn up equipped with their own fireworks and start letting them off with no sense of the dangers involved. Shooting rockets up into the sky randomly from within the crowd can be very alarming. Stopping them doing it is tiresome (and, somehow, the police melt into the background when it's going on). And when challenged by bonfire society members, the argument that "I'm only having some fun" sounds particularly unconvincing when uttered incoherently from a mouth that has clearly been taking in vast quantities of alcohol over the previous six hours. And when people get injured, they blame the bonfire societies.

I had in mind a specific incident at Cliffe Corner at about midnight when a very drunk member of the public took out a pack of rockets and started firing them from his hand in the direction of the nearby retirement flats. Despite the fact that he could barely stand, he was being egged on by his mates. It took three of us to get him to stop. If we hadn't, god knows what damage he would have done. He wasn't just dropping rookies.

As I say ... it's tiresome having to deal with idiots.

 

[Bozza]

That's not what I said. I said this:-

I had in mind a specific incident at Cliffe Corner at about midnight when a very drunk member of the public took out a pack of rockets and started firing them from his hand in the direction of the nearby retirement flats. Despite the fact that he could barely stand, he was being egged on by his mates. It took three of us to get him to stop. If we hadn't, god knows what damage he would have done. He wasn't just dropping rookies.

As I say ... it's tiresome having to deal with idiots.

Midnight. Drunk. Local idiot?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Midnight. Drunk. Local idiot?

I've got no idea whether he was local. He was an idiot. And if the police had been around (which they weren't), I'm fairly sure he would have had an on-the-spot fixed penalty.

Generously, we let him go without charging him £80.

 

[Buzzer]

LB - in the spirit of glasnost. If I have offended people by comparing them to the FPC/LDV mob I'm sorry. Can you see though why perhaps non-Lewes people might view this thread as somewhat antagonistic against non-Lewesians?

Do you think that perhaps the societies could improve their PR and prevent unwelcome outsiders if there was a bit of give and take on both sides?

 

[jevs]

I had in mind a specific incident at Cliffe Corner at about midnight when a very drunk member of the public took out a pack of rockets and started firing them from his hand in the direction of the nearby retirement flats. Despite the fact that he could barely stand, he was being egged on by his mates. It took three of us to get him to stop. If we hadn't, god knows what damage he would have done. He wasn't just dropping rookies.

As I say ... it's tiresome having to deal with idiots

One incident Lord B....ONE incident.

So your last sentance should read...."As I say ... it's tiresome having to deal with an idiot"

 

[Lord Bracknell]

One incident Lord B....ONE incident.

So your last sentance should read...."As I say ... it's tiresome having to deal with an idiot"

Not the only one of the evening, I assure you. The trouble with spectators who light fireworks from the side of the procession is that they THROW them somewhere. People in the procession DROP them to the ground.

A thrown firework often explodes where it is not expected to (and sometimes in mid-flight). That can (and does) cause injuries. Something dropped to the ground goes off much more safely, where it causes nothing but noise.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

LB - in the spirit of glasnost. If I have offended people by comparing them to the FPC/LDV mob I'm sorry. Can you see though why perhaps non-Lewes people might view this thread as somewhat antagonistic against non-Lewesians?

Do you think that perhaps the societies could improve their PR and prevent unwelcome outsiders if there was a bit of give and take on both sides?

The issue isn't "public relations". It's the number of people attending and the consequences that has for the evening. For the last ten years or so, the experiences for all participants (bonfire society members and spectators) has been that the massive police presence has interfered with the way the evening goes.

For the most part, police officers who have been drafted in have no idea what is happening in front of them. An example this year was the taping off of the pavements on Cliffe Bridge - apparently with the intention of preventing ANYONE from getting near to the edge of the bridge. The police officers who were enforcing this rule seemed unaware that part of the ceremonies of at least two societies is to throw burning objects into the river. Threatening to arrest the individuals who do this, because they are "crossing a police line" is ridiculous. But it happened.

The police often move the crowds into streets where they simply get in the way. Recent years have seen processions re-routed unexpectedly - and this often results in more danger being created than was avoided by the decision to move the crowd in the first place. It also causes arguments to break out between Bonfire Society leaders and police officers, who aren't listening to reason and can't, in any case, undo the stupid decision they took a few minutes earlier..

If the number of visitors was less, the policing would be different. And everyone would have a better time.

 

[shingle]

Not the only one of the evening, I assure you. The trouble with spectators who light fireworks from the side of the procession is that they THROW them somewhere. People in the procession DROP them to the ground.

A thrown firework often explodes where it is not expected to (and sometimes in mid-flight). That can (and does) cause injuries. Something dropped to the ground goes off much more safely, where it causes nothing but noise.

Have to agree with LB on this one.

That is exactly what I witnessed on monday night. Two very dangerous incidents, twice I saw spectators letting off rockets, yes rockets, in the high street, whilst the bonfire boys were dropping bangers and rookies on the ground as they were marching.

 

[Buzzer]

The issue isn't "public relations". It's the number of people attending and the consequences that has for the evening. For the last ten years or so, the experiences for all participants (bonfire society members and spectators) has been that the massive police presence has interfered with the way the evening goes.

For the most part, police officers who have been drafted in have no idea what is happening in front of them. An example this year was the taping off of the pavements on Cliffe Bridge - apparently with the intention of preventing ANYONE from getting near to the edge of the bridge. The police officers who were enforcing this rule seemed unaware that part of the ceremonies of at least two societies is to throw burning objects into the river. Threatening to arrest the individuals who do this, because they are "crossing a police line" is ridiculous. But it happened.

The police often move the crowds into streets where they simply get in the way. Recent years have seen processions re-routed unexpectedly - and this often results in more danger being created than was avoided by the decision to move the crowd in the first place. It also causes arguments to break out between Bonfire Society leaders and police officers, who aren't listening to reason and can't, in any case, undo the stupid decision they took a few minutes earlier..

If the number of visitors was less, the policing would be different. And everyone would have a better time.

that'll be a "no - it's not us Lewes people's fault" then. It's students, police, catholics, out of towners [insert some other non-Lewes group here].

 

[Lord Bracknell]

that'll be a "no - it's not us Lewes people's fault" then. It's students, police, catholics, out of towners [insert some other non-Lewes group here].

Wrong.

It's no-one's "fault". It's an inevitable (and regrettable) consequence of the numbers of people who turn up.

 

[Lammy]

that'll be a "no - it's not us Lewes people's fault" then. It's students, police, catholics, out of towners [insert some other non-Lewes group here].

You really do seem to have a problem accepting that it is simply a case of numbers that is the problem. You're looking for something more sinister that simply isn't there.

 

[Lammy]

The issue isn't "public relations". It's the number of people attending and the consequences that has for the evening. For the last ten years or so, the experiences for all participants (bonfire society members and spectators) has been that the massive police presence has interfered with the way the evening goes.

For the most part, police officers who have been drafted in have no idea what is happening in front of them. An example this year was the taping off of the pavements on Cliffe Bridge - apparently with the intention of preventing ANYONE from getting near to the edge of the bridge. The police officers who were enforcing this rule seemed unaware that part of the ceremonies of at least two societies is to throw burning objects into the river. Threatening to arrest the individuals who do this, because they are "crossing a police line" is ridiculous. But it happened.

The police often move the crowds into streets where they simply get in the way. Recent years have seen processions re-routed unexpectedly - and this often results in more danger being created than was avoided by the decision to move the crowd in the first place. It also causes arguments to break out between Bonfire Society leaders and police officers, who aren't listening to reason and can't, in any case, undo the stupid decision they took a few minutes earlier..

If the number of visitors was less, the policing would be different. And everyone would have a better time.

I actually thought the taping off of the pavements was a good idea (as if here is a crush there is somewhere to go). However, I didn't realise they weren't even letting the societies . Although it would be much easier if someone just put a couple of 'KEEP LEFT' signs up. Hey ho.

 

[Buzzer]

You really do seem to have a problem accepting that it is simply a case of numbers that is the problem. You're looking for something more sinister that simply isn't there.

not really - part playing devil advocate, part surprised with the Little Lewesian attitude. There's been a lot posted on this thread not just about numbers but about "outsiders" ruining it, not knowing the rules, police spoiling people's fun, students running amok, etc etc.
Certainly a lot more than just mere congestion and congestion wasn't what I was trying to get at. And the impression I'm left with is that the people of Lewes esp. the processioners appear parochial and cliquey which surprised me as I haven't got that impression when I've been there. It just seems very anarchic (from all sides ) and certainly as much naughtiness from processioners as spectators.