the Dambusters on channel 5

[Pavilionaire]

Despite being a great film and a pivotal event in WW2 it was inevitable this thread was always going to be dominated by the dog's name. NSC at its worst.

 

[m20gull]

Thoroughly enjoyed the film, rather disappointed by the documentary that followed. Lining up a trip to Dunsfold to see the Canadian Lanc.

 

[Mental Lental]

 

[Brightonfan1983]

Good point. It is a still a glorification of an event imo. I wonder if Barnes Wallace went to bed that night and slept easily. Like Oppenheimer.

It's an old chestnut. Would you kill one, two, ten, a hundred people knowing it'd in all probability save the lives of thousands?

 

[Brightonfan1983]

The thing is, the World changes and fads & fashions do too. Many oldies were brought up with what are now offensive words in our nursery rhymes, songs & stories. Re-writing these, or erasing things we don't like from the past, comes donw to the book burning of the past.

Most of the above were not used in an intentionally racist way or to cause offence. Of course, we cannot use those words now, in our enlightened age, but equally I don't think we should 'doctor' films like this.

States in America have banned Tom Sawyer et al for decades now. I'm sure we don't want to be as 'progressive' as them.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

It's an old chestnut. Would you kill one, two, ten, a hundred people knowing it'd in all probability save the lives of thousands?

In wartime, these decisions have to be made. There was no bigger decision than that taken to drop the atomic bomb on Japan. The Allies knew there would be catastrophic loss of life and widespread and ongoing devastation. They knew the Japanese would fight to the last man, woman and child standing and although the European conflict was over, it was obvious that the war in the Far East could drag on for years, with further massive loss of life. It was a calculated decision to ultimately save many lives.
Churchill was faced with a huge decision when it looked as if the French fleet was going to fall into German hands. He knew it would tilt the balance on the seas and could cost us the war. Against huge opposition, he bombed and sunk the French ships and killed many in the process ( and they were on our side!!! )
Throughout history, men have been used as cannon fodder to achieve military aims. None more so than Stalin sending hundreds of thousands ( if not millions ) to certain death on the Eastern Front because the one thing he had plenty of was manpower. He was prepared to see the bodies pile up to gain yardage.
Wartime is like no other situation. It calls for terrible decisions and terrible sacrifice. The Dambusters raid was another calculated decision, with high risk involved. Many will argue that the action was justified.

 

[Rowdey]

At the 1952 Farnborough Air show a plane crashed into the crowd killing 29 - they carried on with the show and the next day even more people turned up - what would happen today?

But they knew the main reason for that crash (it went super-sonic) and ever since all Brit Air Shows now have to be Sub-sonic ?

(I've been at Duxford airshow this weekend, and heard that snippet)

 

[jakarta]

But they knew the main reason for that crash (it went super-sonic) and ever since all Brit Air Shows now have to be Sub-sonic ?

(I've been at Duxford airshow this weekend, and heard that snippet)

That's b*llocks, I have been to many Airshows with aircraft going supersonic.

I love the bedwetting on this thread. I wonder what these people do when genuinely important things happen in their lives?

(you know that thing that goes on outside of NSC)?

 

[Vicar!]

Quite a remarkable piece of family history here. My mother lived very close to Gibsons airbase in Lincoln and on several occasions took '******' on his afternoon stroll.
Many stories about the girls counting out the planes as they left and in again on their return. Her best friend was beheaded on a bus in Lincoln City which took a direct hit one night. I am lead to believe the Canadian boys were rather popular in town.

 

[Rowdey]

That's b*llocks, I have been to many Airshows with aircraft going supersonic.

I love the bedwetting on this thread. I wonder what these people do when genuinely important things happen in their lives?

(you know that thing that goes on outside of NSC)?

Thanks for you input. I'm not 'bedwetting' about it, but having subsequently trawled the internet, i still think i'm broadly right.
Since the DH110 crashed at Farnborough in 1952, no supersonic flights over domestic UK/Low level (like Airshows) unless they are QRA or testing (Lightnings in '67 testing in advance of Concorde)
Concorde not being allowed to spin up to Mach 1 until well over Bristol channel being one example.

Gratuitous video included:

 

[Langley]

Good point. It is a still a glorification of an event imo. I wonder if Barnes Wallace went to bed that night and slept easily. Like Oppenheimer.

Have you forgotten Hitler & Stalin ?

 

[tweenster]

I took this last weekend at RAF Scampton:

Mary Stopes-Roe, daughter of Sir Barnes Wallis, and Johnny Johnson, the last British Dambuster in front of the dog's grave.

 

[tweenster]

I wonder if Barnes Wallace went to bed that night and slept easily.

It's well documented that Barnes Wallace had great difficulty dealing with the consequences of the raid and the human cost.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The thing is, the World changes and fads & fashions do too. Many oldies were brought up with what are now offensive words in our nursery rhymes, songs & stories. Re-writing these, or erasing things we don't like from the past, comes donw to the book burning of the past.

Most of the above were not used in an intentionally racist way or to cause offence. Of course, we cannot use those words now, in our enlightened age, but equally I don't think we should 'doctor' films like this.

Agreed. We are supposed to learn from past mistakes, not pretend that they did not happen.

 

[Buzzer]

Would it be acceptable to use the 'N' word for the dog in the film if they cast Snoop Dogg in the role of Guy Gibson?

"Drop it like it bounces..."