Teachers Strike

[Gregory2Smith1]

my wife's a teacher,often she'd be working at home until 11 o'clock at night,preparing for the next day or marking,she teaches up to A-level which can be demanding

there's alot of work outside the classroom that people don't see

sure the holidays are good,when i was laying bricks back in the uk the only "real" Holiday i'd get would be at Christmas
when your throwing up a flank,you can turn off mentally so to speak,in the classroom that's not possible

i've tried it,doing English oral (steady) lessons to french kids,just 5 at a time can be difficult,let alone a whole class,determined on giving you grief

all jobs have plusses and against,teaching is no different,it's certainly not a walk in the park as percieved by some

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm currently doing a PGCE, and I can honestly say it is by a long long chalk the hardest thing I've ever done. Got in at half 7 this morning, just got back and am about the start planning an a level lesson. It's really really not a cushy job.

im not sure anyone say it is cushy. well maybe a few. i think the point is that the union choses to fight on the grounds of pay and conditions, in this case mainly pension, when the pay and pension are very generous. the unions should be focusing on those long hours imo.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

If these jolly holidays are paid then teachers are not earning enough.

You are expected to be in school for 1,265 hours a year. If you are earning £25k that is £19.76 an hour.

The reality is that most teachers will spend 1,900+ hours on the job (that is a 9 hour day for 195 school days). That equates to £13 an hour. 1,900 hours is a conservative estimate.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I'm currently doing a PGCE, and I can honestly say it is by a long long chalk the hardest thing I've ever done...

Best of luck. I completed and passed mine last year. It almost broke me.

If you need any advice on what not to do, I am your man.

 

[Guinness Boy]

im not sure anyone say it is cushy. well maybe a few. i think the point is that the union choses to fight on the grounds of pay and conditions, in this case mainly pension, when the pay and pension are very generous. the unions should be focusing on those long hours imo.

Final salary schemes in the public sector are simply not sustainable. The country will go bankrupt before most are paid. The private sector began phasing them out years ago. However, what you can't then do is reduce pay in real term as well. Unfortunately most of the heavyweights in the unions are going to be older and more experienced, knarled and political and with the most to lose if pension arrangements are changed. A decent starting salary for new teachers, the abolition of OFSTED, the genuine enforcement of the European working hours directive and the removal of the national curriculum would all be good starts to improving life for children and teachers. However senior teachers, union reps and politicians are all primarily focused on protecting what they have rather than innovation.

 

[Creaky]

Being a teacher is harder than it used to be, but isn't every job these days? To their credit teachers today are better than a generation ago.

As public sector goes they do pretty well with a final salary pension still intact, extended hols and some benefits Jonny private sector can only dream off.

Made me laugh today when I heard a striking head on the radio saying "We're only doing it for the children".....

That is one of the things in dispute - the final salary pension is being got rid of retrospectively from 2015 and pension contributions from teachers are being increased. A teacher could have been paying towards a final salary pension for twenty years but at the stroke of a pen the value of that pension has been cut.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That is one of the things in dispute - the final salary pension is being got rid of retrospectively from 2015 and pension contributions from teachers are being increased. A teacher could have been paying towards a final salary pension for twenty years but at the stroke of a pen the value of that pension has been cut.

Wow. Let's hope that never happens in the private sector.

 

[Creaky]

Final salary schemes in the public sector are simply not sustainable. The country will go bankrupt before most are paid. The private sector began phasing them out years ago. However, what you can't then do is reduce pay in real term as well. Unfortunately most of the heavyweights in the unions are going to be older and more experienced, knarled and political and with the most to lose if pension arrangements are changed. A decent starting salary for new teachers, the abolition of OFSTED, the genuine enforcement of the European working hours directive and the removal of the national curriculum would all be good starts to improving life for children and teachers. However senior teachers, union reps and politicians are all primarily focused on protecting what they have rather than innovation.

I agree that final salary pensions really aren't sustainable as life expectancy has increased so much over the last few decades. I can't see a problem with new entrants no longer being offered entry into such a scheme - this is mainly how the private sector has dealt with the situation, closing the final salary pension to new employees.

That is totally different to making compulsory changes to a scheme so that those who may have been paying into it for decades are told they won't be getting the pension they have already paid for!

 

[Guinness Boy]

That is totally different to making compulsory changes to a scheme so that those who may have been paying into it for decades are told they won't be getting the pension they have already paid for!

1) Why would a public servant consider that more important than the education of a child?
2) it's not like the pension is being removed is it?

 

[Creaky]

1) Why would a public servant consider that more important than the education of a child?
2) it's not like the pension is being removed is it?

A warped argument - put it the other way round, why would Gove think reducing pensions retrospectively for teachers more important than the education of children. How does effectively reducing the pay and benefits of teachers help improve education standards when there is already a chronic shortage of teachers?

 

[Guinness Boy]

A warped argument - put it the other way round, why would Gove think reducing pensions retrospectively for teachers more important than the education of children. How does effectively reducing the pay and benefits of teachers help improve education standards when there is already a chronic shortage of teachers?

If teachers are in it for pay and benefits they're in the wrong game. There's loads to hang Gove on but fulfilling his budget obligations isn't one of them. The pensions issue is pure selfishness. Addressing the inane way our schools are micro managed isn't. Protest against the latter and I'll join you on the picket line. Whine about your pension and you can take a number and queue up with the rest of the whingers.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I have a few teacher friends, they are at the school by 7:30am and often leave after 4:30pm.

i

So how come the three schools (two primary and one secondary) I drive past on the way to work having virtually empty car parks at 7.30/7.45? When I used to drop my son off half an hour before school started the teachers were arriving at the same time.

And they often leave after 4.30 do they? Poor souls.

I'm sure they work hard, but let's be honest, they are well paid, get good holidays, have job security and a nice pension to boot.

Oh, and the schools have the cheek to threaten fines if you want to take your kids out for a day as 'it damages their education'. Double standards or what?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No sympathy here, if you don't like the job change careers. Is there a shortage of teachers and would be applicants, no. Game over.

If you want the kids to be educated well then employ the best by paying teachers a decent salary and ensuring they work hours which are commensurate with them being able to be sharp, alert and reactive to the classes in their charge. Pilots, surgeons and lorry drivers have restrictive hours for a reason. If you want the UK to carry on going on down the pan then carry on with your attitude.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

If you want the kids to be educated well then employ the best by paying teachers a decent salary and ensuring they work hours which are commensurate with them being able to be sharp, alert and reactive to the classes in their charge. Pilots, surgeons and lorry drivers have restrictive hours for a reason. If you want the UK to carry on going on down the pan then carry on with your attitude.

Spot bloody on. If you want teachers to earn a certain amount then give them a target of hours to work during the week and then let the system fail.

Just to repeat my earlier musings...

Teachers DO NOT get paid for holidays. The actual work they do equates to not much more than someone earning £10 an hour.

It's pretty impressive that people have such strong opinions about teachers without ever having experienced it themselves.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

18k in training......yes please.

Where on earth did you get this figure? Most PGSE students have to pay thousands to complete their course. The biggest issue with this argument is ill-informed idiots spouting rubbish.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

That is one of the things in dispute - the final salary pension is being got rid of retrospectively from 2015 and pension contributions from teachers are being increased. A teacher could have been paying towards a final salary pension for twenty years but at the stroke of a pen the value of that pension has been cut.

Do you honestly think the teaching profession is unique in having the value of their pensions slashed?

 

[Nibble]

Teachers don't get paid enough for the work they do or the responsibility they hold. On top of that they have to put up with draconian red tape and admin and Gove diddling about with their pensions. Frankly I'm surprised they don't strike more often.

On top of which, if they want to justify pay rises they have to head up non essential activities such as art, music or drama, often spending their own money to provide materials etc and adding hours onto their working day.

 

[melias shoes]

I was once doing work on a school in Brighton and witnessed what some of those teachers go through abuse wise. Now I know this isn't the issue here but I think it takes a special and dedicated person to be a teacher and I think they deserve every penny they earn. I for one would not want to do it.

 

[Creaky]

If teachers are in it for pay and benefits they're in the wrong game. There's loads to hang Gove on but fulfilling his budget obligations isn't one of them. The pensions issue is pure selfishness. Addressing the inane way our schools are micro managed isn't. Protest against the latter and I'll join you on the picket line. Whine about your pension and you can take a number and queue up with the rest of the whingers.

Well on that basis you might as well pay them at subsistence level - education standards wouldn't fall, would they?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

18k in training......yes please.

Average of 32k with twelve weeks off per year.....yes please.

Proof please.

I did three years at University (and a bit more) and have completed another year at the cost of about £12k.

£18k to train! You make it sound so brilliant. The courses must be inundated with applicants. Why don't you have a go?