Sussex By The Sea

[Surf's Up]

The lyrics to Sussex By the sea are pretty old fashioned and irrelevant nowadays. When you sing things like "we are the men", "let your hearts be gay", "lightly he goes a wooing" and "a solider boy is the ladies' joy" it comes out as a bit shit.

I understand why you and others think the words are from a bygone era and not easily sung in 2014 and I used to be of the same opinion. The more I think about it though the more I think we should retain the original words. This is our song, totally unique to the Albion and Sussex. We are Sussex, a great and beautiful county of which we are justifiably proud. This song describes this pride and links us with our history, of the sacrifices made in the great wars when I'm sure the song was a source of great comfort to soldiers facing battle and to those they left behind. It is a marching song, a battle hymn and a summation of Sussex men. Every time we sing it we should be summoning the spirits of the past into a modern day setting. At the moment we only pay lip service to all this and "der der der der der der der" is, it could be argued, insulting to our heritage. We should retain the words and encourage the club to use every way it can to get 25,000 Sussex men women and children belting it out with pride and accuracy before and during every game.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

I am heartened by the improvement in both singing and clapping along with GOSBTS is recent months... I think we are on a steadily improving trend.

However, I'm sorry but I just cannot agree with Eb.

In Bb, the range for the verse 'Now is the time...' and the chorus that are played at the Amex, is from Bb to the D an octave and major third above. This is the prime range for most male voices.

In Eb it would be impossibly low at the start (low Eb)... or ridiculously high at the finish (high G)... or involve an unconvincing octave shift somewhere in the middle.

Bb is just fine - as the Hussars prove... it just needs to be sung with COMMITMENT and GUSTO!

While I fully understand where you're coming from, my opinions have had to be modified by listening to all available evidence. Take a look at these three YouTube clips.

Our fans at Aston Villa, Feb 2010 Appalling singing, granted, but after two shifts, the key for the chorus ultimately resolves into... Eb

Ditto Nottingham Forest, March 2008. Again, astonishingly, it's Eb!

Now at The Amex, August 2011, for the opening game against Doncaster – perhaps the best-ever opportunity for fans to sing our song "with commitment and gusto"?

But what happens (from 30" in)? Astonishingly, the singers fall silent at the fifth line, because the note being asked of them is simply too high. They don't come back in at all, until the chorus, at which some growl, and others choose to squeak. The stuffing has been knocked out of them, even on this amazing occasion.

And that's the pattern that happens every game at the Amex. Listen out on Saturday. Needless to say, the key of the playout is Bb. Changing it to Eb allows everyone - young and old - to sing it, with gusto, and without unreachable notes, from start to finish.

 

[Brovion]

We did of course try and modernise the words once before, or rather Norman Wisdom did. All that survives of that attempt is the "Oh we're going up AND WE'LL win the Cup" couplet. (Still hear the odd moron with no understanding of English singing "going up TO win the Cup, but I digress).

It IS dated, undoubtedly, but so what? It's our anthem and as this thread has proved any other version (even if we could agree on one) would be equally shit just as 90% of dear old Norman's was.

 

[symyjym]

We did of course try and modernise the words once before, or rather Norman Wisdom did. All that survives of that attempt is the "Oh we're going up AND WE'LL win the Cup" couplet. (Still hear the odd moron with no understanding of English singing "going up TO win the Cup, but I digress).

It IS dated, undoubtedly, but so what? It's our anthem and as this thread has proved any other version (even if we could agree on one) would be equally shit just as 90% of dear old Norman's was.

Depends what era of football the fan belonged to. When we were already up in the old First Division we couldn't go up a league, but we could go up to Wembley and win the cup. I would have been that 16 year old moron in 83 and that's the way I learnt it.

 

[symyjym]

Now at The Amex, August 2011, for the opening game against Doncaster – perhaps the best-ever opportunity for fans to sing our song "with commitment and gusto"?

But what happens (from 30" in)? Astonishingly, the singers fall silent at the fifth line, because the note being asked of them is simply too high. They don't come back in at all, until the chorus, at which some growl, and others choose to squeak. The stuffing has been knocked out of them, even on this amazing occasion.

And that's the pattern that happens every game at the Amex. Listen out on Saturday. Needless to say, the key of the playout is Bb. Changing it to Eb allows everyone - young and old - to sing it, with gusto, and without unreachable notes, from start to finish.

At 0:56 there are definately some pitch issues and it has nothing to do with the groundsman.

 

[Titanic]

While I fully understand where you're coming from, my opinions have had to be modified by listening to all available evidence. Take a look at these three YouTube clips.

Our fans at Aston Villa, Feb 2010 Appalling singing, granted, but after two shifts, the key for the chorus ultimately resolves into... Eb

Ditto Nottingham Forest, March 2008. Again, astonishingly, it's Eb!

Now at The Amex, August 2011, for the opening game against Doncaster – perhaps the best-ever opportunity for fans to sing our song "with commitment and gusto"?

But what happens (from 30" in)? Astonishingly, the singers fall silent at the fifth line, because the note being asked of them is simply too high. They don't come back in at all, until the chorus, at which some growl, and others choose to squeak. The stuffing has been knocked out of them, even on this amazing occasion.

And that's the pattern that happens every game at the Amex. Listen out on Saturday. Needless to say, the key of the playout is Bb. Changing it to Eb allows everyone - young and old - to sing it, with gusto, and without unreachable notes, from start to finish.

I realise that singing the chorus works OK in Eb... But you can't START the verse in Eb... it is simply too low. Are you suggesting we should just sing the chorus... or do you want a recording made with a weird modulation between verse and chorus??

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

I realise that singing the chorus works OK in Eb... But you can't START the verse in Eb... it is simply too low. Are you suggesting we should just sing the chorus... or do you want a recording made with a weird modulation between verse and chorus??

Ah, but MOST people certainly CAN sing it in Eb, from start to finish. Always a mistake to assume one's own comfort range applies to everyone else - as I discovered!

If those lads on the first two recordings - having finally established for themselves that Eb is definitely their most comfortable key - just restarted the first verse in that same key, the whole song becomes perfectly singable.

I'd ask any fan wanting to sing SBTS from scratch firstly to sing in their head the line "Oh we're GO-ing up. That GO is the highest tune's note. Get that right, and everything else just follows on naturally.

 

[paul & shark]

We have always had a average at very best atmosphere since the Goldstone.

 

[Titanic]

Ah, but MOST people certainly CAN sing it in Eb, from start to finish. Always a mistake to assume one's own comfort range applies to everyone else - as I discovered!

Most men can sing a bottom Eb... really?? And those that can (me included as a Second Bass) cannot do it with anything like PASSION or VOLUME - except a few Russian Basso Profundos!

again... are you suggesting an octave shift somewhere in the middle of the chorus??

 

[Brovion]

Depends what era of football the fan belonged to. When we were already up in the old First Division we couldn't go up a league, but we could go up to Wembley and win the cup. I would have been that 16 year old moron in 83 and that's the way I learnt it.

Exactly. It was a one-off change (I sang it on Cup Final day at Wembley as well) but it has made absolutely no sense since 1983. Therefore my point stands.

 

[symyjym]

Exactly. It was a one-off change (I sang it on Cup Final day at Wembley as well) but it has made absolutely no sense since 1983. Therefore my point stands.

I agree to a degree, but it does depend on what division we are in at the time, and when we are in the Prem the "going up" bit will make no sense either. If anything when we are in the Prem it should be changed again, but to "we're staying up and we'll win the cup"?

 

[Brovion]

I agree to a degree, but it does depend on what division we are in at the time, and when we are in the Prem the "going up" bit will make no sense either. If anything when we are in the Prem it should be changed again, but to "we're staying up and we'll win the cup"?

Well if we get back to the top division you can change them again! In the meantime, weren't you the one (post #17) saying the words should be 'relevant'?

 

[symyjym]

Well if we get back to the top division you can change them again! In the meantime, weren't you the one (post #17) saying the words should be 'relevant'?

Agree it depends on what division we are in and we should change accordingly. And I agree with it having to be relevant.

I should also add that the terrace one is diiferent to the anthem, and should be considered so, rather blending them both.

If the GOSBTS anthem second line was just changed to "Now let your hearts be brave" it would make a massive difference and more fans would buy into it.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Going Up Till We Win the Cup.

And that is that.

 

[Surf's Up]

Going Up Till We Win the Cup.

And that is that.

I suspect it won't be!

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Most men can sing a bottom Eb... really?? And those that can (me included as a Second Bass) cannot do it with anything like PASSION or VOLUME - except a few Russian Basso Profundos!

again... are you suggesting an octave shift somewhere in the middle of the chorus??

Of course not! I fear you’re still misunderstanding me. I never claimed that most men can sing a bottom Eb - I’m guessing you must dwell an octave below everyone else!

For clarity, just listen again to the crowd singing the song in the Nottingham Forest YouTube clip. They are singing the entire ‘chorus’ (well, it's actually the refrain, but let that pass!) "Good old Sussex by the Sea, good old Sussex by the Sea ", etc in a key that, quite apart from being entirely comfortable for their range of voices, encompasses the complete range of notes they are going to need for any of the verses. Ergo, they are guaranteed to be able to sing the entire song in that key.

The very last word that they sing "...by the SEA" is of course their key's root note – namely, Eb. To start the song again they’d simply need to go UP four semitones from that Eb, to G - and off they go again with "NOW is the time for marching..." I really can't make it any clearer than that.

No doubt you have a rich and fine bass voice. Most of our crowd don't. The younger ones, especially, will always naturally incline to a higher key. I accept that you may well feel uncomfortable singing a little above your normal range. But our fans have established a key that suits their own voices. It’s E flat. The playout version, in B flat, doesn’t. The evidence is all there, in those three YouTube clips.

I’m sure this vitally important interchange is incomprehensibly boring to others reading this thread – which, after all, is supposed to be about singing the proper words to SBTS. If you want to pursue the topic anymore, I suggest we use the private message facility.

 

[Titanic]

Of course not! I fear you’re still misunderstanding me. I never claimed that most men can sing a bottom Eb - I’m guessing you must dwell an octave below everyone else!

For clarity, just listen again to the crowd singing the song in the Nottingham Forest YouTube clip. They are singing the entire ‘chorus’ (well, it's actually the refrain, but let that pass!) "Good old Sussex by the Sea, good old Sussex by the Sea ", etc in a key that, quite apart from being entirely comfortable for their range of voices, encompasses the complete range of notes they are going to need for any of the verses. Ergo, they are guaranteed to be able to sing the entire song in that key.

The very last word that they sing "...by the SEA" is of course their key's root note – namely, Eb. To start the song again they’d simply need to go UP four semitones from that Eb, to G - and off they go again with "NOW is the time for marching..." I really can't make it any clearer than that.

No doubt you have a rich and fine bass voice. Most of our crowd don't. The younger ones, especially, will always naturally incline to a higher key. I accept that you may well feel uncomfortable singing a little above your normal range. But our fans have established a key that suits their own voices. It’s E flat. The playout version, in B flat, doesn’t. The evidence is all there, in those three YouTube clips.

I’m sure this vitally important interchange is incomprehensibly boring to others reading this thread – which, after all, is supposed to be about singing the proper words to SBTS. If you want to pursue the topic anymore, I suggest we use the private message facility.

But the point is that they 'sing' the verse and chorus in DIFFERENT keys. Are you suggesting that a recording is made with a modulation between the verse and chorus?

To sing in Eb at the pitch you are suggesting would require a G above middle C on the word 'TELL' which is clearly outside the 'normal' range for untrained mens voices (and indeed mine, as a bass).

 

[Moshe Gariani]

But the point is that they 'sing' the verse and chorus in DIFFERENT keys. Are you suggesting that a recording is made with a modulation between the verse and chorus?

To sing in Eb at the pitch you are suggesting would require a G above middle C on the word 'TELL' which is clearly outside the 'normal' range for untrained mens voices (and indeed mine, as a bass).

This is all beyond me but I know from personal experience that the key (no pun intended) to a successful rendition of SBTS at full gusto is STARTING LOW... otherwise I get to a point I can't manage... I think this is generally true for blokes at The Amex.

Who am I supporting in the great debate?

(Interestingly, all this stuff applies to "You'll Never Walk Alone" as well. The Kop often get over excited in belting it out a level they can't then manage the highest notes on and they have to do a sort of re-start...)

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

This is all beyond me but I know from personal experience that the key (no pun intended) to a successful rendition of SBTS at full gusto is STARTING LOW... otherwise I get to a point I can't manage... I think this is generally true for blokes at The Amex.

Absolutely agree. As you say, the aim is to get people starting off low enough so that they can reach the song's highest note (GO-ing up) with relative ease. Those Forest and Villa clips demonstrate the key that suits their [untrained] voices happens to be E Flat.

Suggest you listen to the Forest clip and then try to follow on by singing verse 1 "Now is the time...", maintaining the crowd's key. You should find the whole song is then totally singable in one!

A report back from you would help clear some of the fog this thread has unfortunately generated!!

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Absolutely agree. As you say, the aim is to get people starting off low enough so that they can reach the song's highest note (GO-ing up) with relative ease. Those Forest and Villa clips demonstrate the key that suits their [untrained] voices happens to be E Flat.

Suggest you listen to the Forest clip and then try to follow on by singing verse 1 "Now is the time...", maintaining the crowd's key. You should find the whole song is then totally singable in one!

A report back from you would help clear some of the fog this thread has unfortunately generated!!

Unfortunately I don't think I am the right man for this job as I have got no chance of either starting or maintaining a nominated key...!!!