Should 'Commuter A' have been Prosecuted?

[HawkTheSeagull]

Where's that guy who's always defending the train companies? Is he on holiday or something? Defamatory posts against the TOCs been up all day and he hasn't come here to rebut them.

Should have been prosecuted - simple as that. People who fail to pay a £30 fare get prosecuted on occasions - why shouldnt this guy ? Fare evaders cost companies millions, would say it would stop fare rises, but it probably wouldnt.

 

[KneeOn]

Should have been prosecuted - simple as that. People who fail to pay a £30 fare get prosecuted on occasions - why shouldnt this guy ? Fare evaders cost companies millions, would say it would stop fare rises, but it probably wouldnt.

They only get prosecuted because they didn't take the out of court settlement.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

They only get prosecuted because they didn't take the out of court settlement.

Do they get that option? Who would pick a court battle over an out of court settlement?

My one and only fine was losing my ticket in the machine, I got trapped as I had three big bags. I couldn't remember which one and they couldn't be arsed to check all of them.

He asked me where I came from, which was Putney. Why would I dodge a fare and then tell them I came from Putney?! Er... Yeah, Hassocks, I haven't come far, fine me the minimum.

It's relatively easy to dodge a fare towards Brighton. Get the train there and then get a connecting service to either London Road or Preston Park. They don't seem keen enough to make money by ignoring those stations. You're pretty much in Brighton.

 

[KneeOn]

Do they get that option? Who would pick a court battle over an out of court settlement?

Those who think that they can take on the railway and win. Or those who genuinely believe the MG11 was issued when it shouldn't have been, if there was a genuine mistake.

If you come through at Gatwick Airport with no ticket, and some one tries to charge you 20 quid or caution you and potentially take you to court what would you take? Not all take it because they don't want to hand money over to a "jobsworth" but despite the warnings don't realize that they WILL likely lose.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Those who think that they can take on the railway and win. Or those who genuinely believe the MG11 was issued when it shouldn't have been, if there was a genuine mistake.

If you come through at Gatwick Airport with no ticket, and some one tries to charge you 20 quid or caution you and potentially take you to court what would you take? Not all take it because they don't want to hand money over to a "jobsworth" but despite the warnings don't realize that they WILL likely lose.

Why are they a jobsworth?

 

[KneeOn]

Why are they a jobsworth?

Because we dare to charge a Penalty Fare to some one who isn't a yob... its the most commonly heard insult I hear as an RPI.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Because we dare to charge a Penalty Fare to some one who isn't a yob... its the most commonly heard insult I hear as an RPI.

You are a train man?

 

[happypig]

They only get prosecuted because they didn't take the out of court settlement.

Many of the people that get prosecuted are not first time offenders (some of them have done it dozens of times) and they know what the court will give them in respect of the fine, victim surcharge, costs and compensation (the fare evaded).
If everyone is offered an out of court settlement, and I have my doubts as it's never mentioned by the prosecutor, then the only reason they wouldn't take a "better offer" is if the train company demands payment immediately and they don't have the money to pay it (courts allow fines to be paid in instalments); if that's true, then it's disgraceful that you can avoid prosecution simply by having deep enough pockets.

 

[KneeOn]

You are a train man?

Yeah. I am!

 

[soistes]

Because we dare to charge a Penalty Fare to some one who isn't a yob... its the most commonly heard insult I hear as an RPI.

What's an RPI when it's at home?? (I've only ever heard this used to refer to the RPI index -- retail price inflation).

 

[KneeOn]

Many of the people that get prosecuted are not first time offenders (some of them have done it dozens of times) and they know what the court will give them in respect of the fine, victim surcharge, costs and compensation (the fare evaded).
If everyone is offered an out of court settlement, and I have my doubts as it's never mentioned by the prosecutor, then the only reason they wouldn't take a "better offer" is if the train company demands payment immediately and they don't have the money to pay it (courts allow fines to be paid in instalments); if that's true, then it's disgraceful that you can avoid prosecution simply by having deep enough pockets.

Repeat offenders are a different kettle of fish, as are unpaid Penalty Fares.

It suits the TOC for a first time offender to take the settlement because it means they can focus on the proper evaders as apposed to some one being a bit brave and not paying the fare/penalty the RPI tries to charge or who had a stupid moment. If they get caught again they will likely be prosecuted. In my experience every 1st time offender gets it unless they have done it for a long time. The TOC probably got more through the out of court settlement than what would have come from Prosecution. the Settlement doesn't have to be relative to the fare avoided and will include an "admin charge".

Bare in mind this is my living - I am an RPI. Some people genuinely believe that RPI's target some one and will just **** them up for the sake of it - its my fault instead of the person without a ticket and want to try it on in court not realizing that the railway has over 120 years of dealing with fare evasion and if you try to take us to court you better have something hidden up your sleeve which was declared under caution.

 

[KneeOn]

What's an RPI when it's at home?? (I've only ever heard this used to refer to the RPI index -- retail price inflation).

Revenue Protection Inspector in some companies, Revenue Protection officer in others. They also go by Fraud Control officers if they are focused on things like this case here, or Revenue Control Officers if they are focused on penalties and do not carry a warrant badge.

The RPI's, RPO's and FCO's carry warrant badges.

 

[Sheebo]

I'm just chuffed my local tinpot station has made national press! As Heffle Gull pointed out earlier, stonegates' ticket office is rarely open - you usually have to buy a ticket...

Reading the pretending to be asleep and hiding in a toilet bits did bring me back to being a kid Come on we all did it to watch the Albion

 

[KneeOn]

I'm just chuffed my local tinpot station has made national press! As Heffle Gull pointed out earlier, stonegates' ticket office is rarely open - you usually have to buy a ticket...

Reading the pretending to be asleep and hiding in a toilet bits did bring me back to being a kid Come on we all did it to watch the Albion

Are you admitting an offence?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Yeah. I am!

So you don't challenge people you think may kick off? Or am I misreading something?

 

[KneeOn]

So you don't challenge people you think may kick off? Or am I misreading something?

Ah,that depends. If there is a risk to my safety (drunk, gut feeling) then no, i'll let them go. I also cannot chase them because once they leave railway property my warrant badge is useless. I've dealt with worse than some one yelling at me over 20 quid so its in one ear and out the other with a smile, nod and i'll take their 20 quid and send them on their way. A bit of abuse is natural in the job I do.

I was making the point that some people instead of paying 20 quid and not giving me details will rather try to take on the prosecutions department and pay 80 quid instead of 20 because in the heat of the moment they became too involved in the idea that there was this "jobsworth" taking money they didn't owe.

 

[soistes]

Revenue Protection Inspector in some companies, Revenue Protection officer in others. They also go by Fraud Control officers if they are focused on things like this case here, or Revenue Control Officers if they are focused on penalties and do not carry a warrant badge.

The RPI's, RPO's and FCO's carry warrant badges.

Blimey -- so this is what would in the pre-privatisation days have been called a ticket inspector?

 

[happypig]

Ah,that depends. If there is a risk to my safety (drunk, gut feeling) then no, i'll let them go. I also cannot chase them because once they leave railway property my warrant badge is useless. I've dealt with worse than some one yelling at me over 20 quid so its in one ear and out the other with a smile, nod and i'll take their 20 quid and send them on their way. A bit of abuse is natural in the job I do.

I was making the point that some people instead of paying 20 quid and not giving me details will rather try to take on the prosecutions department and pay 80 quid instead of 20 because in the heat of the moment they became too involved in the idea that there was this "jobsworth" taking money they didn't owe.

What's to stop someone simply refusing to engage with you and walking off ? (I presume you don't have arrest powers).

 

[KneeOn]

What's to stop someone simply refusing to engage with you and walking off ? (I presume you don't have arrest powers).

Sod all. Those who walk away though, we remember. And one day we will have an on duty officer with us and you won't be able to walk away.

Alternatively there are off duty police officers who will assist.

The majority of people who look like they are going to walk away only need to be told "you are legally obliged to provide me your details and I will need to verify them. Once you've done that you can go where you like and walk away should you wish" and will oblige.

Finally those who aren't habitual fare evaders or are professional fare evaders but aren't "yobs" or "chavs" won't run. Very few of the first category ever run. They want to convince you (usually its futile).

Professional fare evaders such as Commuter A know the risk they take. Yobs who don't care for authority or the like and will run from police if they think they can - they don't tend to last long before we get them again.

 

[KneeOn]

Blimey -- so this is what would in the pre-privatisation days have been called a ticket inspector?

Before my time so I don't know!