Should 'Commuter A' have been Prosecuted?

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wonder if there are a few regular commuters looking a bit sweaty just now ?

It's generally the case when you're packed in like sardines.

 

[dazzer6666]

Not any more. My Sussex to London commute is on a comfy seat in an air-conditioned carriage. It's the other passengers wot ruin it

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

not really. he's said fair cop and paid the full daily fare. pretty much same as anyone caught without a ticket by conductor, if they don't kick up a fuss (or make a "i was in a rush " plea), they have the money and pay there and then no more is heard of it.

Ridiculous comment. He'd been doing it for five years. Serial fraudster.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The publicity of the out of court settlement will mean all the other fare dodgers travelling from Sussex to London know for certain there will be a strong clampdown on the evaders.

 

[beorhthelm]

So your advice to season ticket holders is do not to pay unless you are unlucky enough to get caught?

not at all, i was refuting the point that he's been treated preferably to how "someone on benefits" would be.

 

[happypig]

not really. he's said fair cop and paid the full daily fare. pretty much same as anyone caught without a ticket by conductor, if they don't kick up a fuss (or make a "i was in a rush " plea), they have the money and pay there and then no more is heard of it.

The fact that he's admitted it and paid the full fares is irrelevant, for 5 years he deliberately evaded paying which is an offence. I cannot think of any other case where a history of offending going back several years is deemed LESS serious than a one off offence and therefore suitable for an out of court settlement.
Compare it to benefit fraud, under a certain amount you will be asked to repay the amount claimed but go over that and you will get taken to court.

 

[Husty]

Where's that guy who's always defending the train companies? Is he on holiday or something? Defamatory posts against the TOCs been up all day and he hasn't come here to rebut them.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

If you had gone on, would you have included :

And those with Apple earphones, which are useless

And those who constantly text but have keypad tones on

And those who simply have to make a call to MOAN about the DREADFUL train being 3 MINUTES late

And those that use laptops that have dodgy keys so they have to whack them really hard. All the way to London

And those that eat stuff, and then either leave the wrappers on the table or crumple it up and surreptitiously drop it on the floor

And those that eat and wipe their fingers on the seat

And those that put their coat on the luggage rack laid out to it's full length

Etc

YES! They can all go.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Where's that guy who's always defending the train companies? Is he on holiday or something? Defamatory posts against the TOCs been up all day and he hasn't come here to rebut them.

Good point. Maybe he is taking a train break and defending mass murderers or rapists instead?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Should have been in court for fraud and locked up for at least five years.

Are you talking about the companies which claim to be running a rail service?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He should have been BANNED from travelling on SouthEastern trains

I thought the idea is that you PUNISH offenders?

 

[Badger]

I thought the idea is that you PUNISH offenders?

Maybe he should be forced to ONLY travel on FCC trains

 

[kevo]

As someone who has been prosecuted for dodging a single fare (a long, long time ago) of course he should be prosecuted and, as a consequence, given a criminal conviction.

You could also argue that fare dodgers are partially responsible for how high fares are, as they cost the rail companies millions.

 

[dazzer6666]

Maybe he should be forced to ONLY travel on FCC trains

That'd be a bit harsh

 

[Billy the Fish]

You could also argue that fare dodgers are partially responsible for how high fares are, as they cost the rail companies millions.

I don't think you can, the numbers show that it's not the case. i.e record profits and maximum fare increases year after year.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

And those that look at my laptop when i am working.

I'm 'guilty' of that. But if you have to work on a crowded train, what do you expect? You never know, some helpful chap might lean in one morning and correct a bit of errant grammar. Then you'd be grateful.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

Fare dodging is a civil rather than criminal matter, so if he pays then there is no further case against him.

But they could choose to prosecute though, right? After all, if someone's caught shoplifting, there's prosecution looming even though the goods have been returned...

 

[KneeOn]

Out of interest, prosecute him for what? Presumably they could only take him to court for the back payments, that he has agreed to pay anyway?

(And for what it's worth, I'm in the 'he's a hero' camp, even if he is a banker.)

As what is described by the general public as 'that wanker on the train' I can shed some light on this. Although not the revenue inspector involved, the decision to NOT prosecute is the right one if you look at the case in line with everything else. All Ticket Irregularity Reports go to a prosecution department who then contact the alledged offender. They offer an out of court settlement usually slightly less than what would be passed down in court.

It is an offence, under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 which carries a maximum penalty of three months in prison, a £1000 fine and a criminal record.

It would be possible to get a prosecution under the Fraud Act (I forget the year), and possibly the Railway Bye Laws. The only specific fare evasion law he cannot be prosecuted under is the Penalty Fares Act 2002 because he obviously provided a name and address.

The fact is a Magistrate didn't have to sit and listen to a case be presented by the company for something which is pretty stonewall. If he has agreed to pay he must know that he is likely to be named and shamed if he goes to court because it is highly probably he will be found guilty. He's bought him self a clean criminal record.

 

[KneeOn]

Just to clear up two or three points raised.

Firstly, the double the standard day single (anytime day single on the ticket) applies to a Penalty Fare which is issued if you had the opportunity to buy a ticket (as in the facilities were there - not your time keeping) and didn't and you have the means, you did not intend on evading your fare when you set off but might not have paid at the end if possible, for an adult on child rate tickets if the RPI think it is appropriate or you lack the supporting documents and likely would have gotten away with it should an RPI not have challenged you about the documents. It is worth noting that even if there are barriers not buying a full ticket is still an offence which would regardless of the station, likely end in a penalty fare being issued. For a prosecution he would have an interview with the RPI involved who will have cautioned him. No money (ergo no double the fare for that specific journey) is taken because the case is possible to be heard by a magistrate. MG11/TIRs are issued where there is INTENT on avoiding the rail fare, and we aren't talking about a 16 year old on a child rate ticket although they can be dealt with using TIRs without the court bit.

Secondly as I said in my previous post - anyone who has a TIR (or MG11) issued will be contacted by the TOC and offered an out of court settlement of nearly the same amount of money that is likely to be won in court. Prosecutors know their stuff and will be able to get the right amount of money for an out of court settlement. From the city banker down to the asbo yob or homeless person everyone will (at least at my company) get offered an out of court settlement. I can't comment on SE too much.

Thirdly, the out of court settlement would likely have come at a higher level with the prospect of a public court appearance which is likely why SE took their chance and went well above the going rate which they are entitled to.

 

[KneeOn]

The Southern Franchise expands to be even bigger soon.

No it doesn't. The current route operated by southern will be absorbed in to the current route operated by FCC in to a route called TSGN. The new operator of TSGN will be announced in May and take over the FCC route in September. In 2015 the current Sothern franchise then gets absorbed in to TSGN so if MTK/Stagecoach/Abelio are awarded the franchise neither FCC nor Southern will get bigger but cease to exist.