Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No?

[Mayfair Seagull]

The campaign for safe standing is obviously becoming more mainstream - there's just been a very 'pro' feature about the issue on this morning's 'Breakfast' on BBC. Clearly this is an issue with legs, and WILL happen at selected grounds soon. I would imagine that nearly all grounds will have safe standing sections within 10 years.

Completely agree. It will definitely happen within a few years, it HAS to.

Today's a big day as the campaign is off to Westminster in an effort to get MPs onside. Ian Baird's Fist will be there to represent us.

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]278417261222580224[/tweet]

Interesting question:
[tweet]278417597668679680[/tweet]
I wonder what the result of a poll here would be if the question was "would you stand?"

As for Pogue Mahone's 10 year prediction that most clubs would have it
[tweet]278423270850703360[/tweet]

 

[Mayfair Seagull]

As for Pogue Mahone's 10 year prediction that most clubs would have it
[tweet]278423270850703360[/tweet][/QUOTE]

Matt Dickinson is wrong about the SPL clubs - the problem is the Police are currently blocking it.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

Originally Posted by Walt Jabsco
appreciate that, the point I was making above was that one of the main points of having safe standing is you can make tickets cheaper and more affordable. If you end up charging the same amount as it is now it just sort of defeats the object.

That is just a possible bonus. The reason the majority of fans want it is because they want the option to stand at a football match.

lets face it what business would spend maybe hundred thousand to bring in LESS REVENUE It must be self funding IMO

This is the thing, there really is a finance case for bringing in more revenue:

"Where space and configurations allow more fans can be admitted to safe standing areas too. Exact numbers will vary from club to club because of different stadium dimensions but the Government’s Green Guide allows for one sitting fan for every 1.8 standing fans (i.e. 1:1.8). The ratio in Germany varies from 1:1.2 to 1:1.8 but let’s take 1.4 as a working average.

Now, say a standard ticket is £25, the club receives £20.84 once VAT is deducted for an area of 2,000 seats. That’s gate receipts totalling £41,680 for the club. In standing configuration the capacity increases to 2,800 which means you could reduce the ticket price to £20 (the club receives £16.67 once VAT is deducted) and still bring in £46,676 (2,800 x 16.67) – that’s an increase of £4,996 or nearly 12% from gate receipts alone."

Safe standing - the business case | Football Supporters Federation

Cheaper tickets AND more cash for Barber - definition of a win/win?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ten years is a long time. Momentum on this issue is building, public opinion is changing and the nay-sayers are struggling to find emotive arguments against standing. The word 'choice' is appearing more and more often when the subject is debated.

When one club is given the go ahead to try it out, and it proves to be a success, others will follow, and like Jericho, the walls will come tumbling down. The demand is there, and will grow. Public opinion and pressure will win this debate, and most, if not all, clubs will fall into line.

That's how I see it panning out.

 

[Bozza]

This is the thing, there really is a finance case for bringing in more revenue:

"Where space and configurations allow more fans can be admitted to safe standing areas too. Exact numbers will vary from club to club because of different stadium dimensions but the Government’s Green Guide allows for one sitting fan for every 1.8 standing fans (i.e. 1:1.8). The ratio in Germany varies from 1:1.2 to 1:1.8 but let’s take 1.4 as a working average.

Now, say a standard ticket is £25, the club receives £20.84 once VAT is deducted for an area of 2,000 seats. That’s gate receipts totalling £41,680 for the club. In standing configuration the capacity increases to 2,800 which means you could reduce the ticket price to £20 (the club receives £16.67 once VAT is deducted) and still bring in £46,676 (2,800 x 16.67) – that’s an increase of £4,996 or nearly 12% from gate receipts alone."

Safe standing - the business case | Football Supporters Federation

Cheaper tickets AND more cash for Barber - definition of a win/win?

I'm very much in favour of Safe Standing being explored where practical, but in fairness to our club...

- The North Stand concourse could not cope with that number of extra people without some form of expansion, and I'm not sure how that expansion could happen.
- There are transport considerations.
- Possibly general planning considerations related to capacity etc.

It's the first of these that, I think, might scupper any "we'd be better off because more people would get in" lines of reasoning.

(I'm unsticking this now, but feel free to continue what has been an excellent debate)

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I wonder what the result of a poll here would be if the question was "would you stand?"

I voted 'yes' to safe standing being available. I'd vote 'no' to would I stand.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I voted 'yes' to safe standing being available. I'd vote 'no' to would I stand.

Same for me. I used to stand on the terraces, and would (do) always stand at away games. However, you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming away from my perch at the back of Block H of the WSU.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

I'm very much in favour of Safe Standing being explored where practical, but in fairness to our club...

- The North Stand concourse could not cope with that number of extra people without some form of expansion, and I'm not sure how that expansion could happen.
- There are transport considerations.
- Possibly general planning considerations related to capacity etc.

It's the first of these that, I think, might scupper any "we'd be better off because more people would get in" lines of reasoning.

(I'm unsticking this now, but feel free to continue what has been an excellent debate)

Where there's a will Bozza, where there's a will! The FSF have a demo for the MPs in parliament today and some of us are discussing this issue with the powers that be at the Albion tonight. If we can't get their backing for now I would still like the Club to say that they do not oppose other Clubs from implementing it.

 

[portlock seagull]

Ten years is a long time. Momentum on this issue is building, public opinion is changing and the nay-sayers are struggling to find emotive arguments against standing. The word 'choice' is appearing more and more often when the subject is debated.

When one club is given the go ahead to try it out, and it proves to be a success, others will follow, and like Jericho, the walls will come tumbling down. The demand is there, and will grow. Public opinion and pressure will win this debate, and most, if not all, clubs will fall into line.

That's how I see it panning out.

Well put and I entirely agree.

 

[drew]

Where there's a will Bozza, where there's a will! The FSF have a demo for the MPs in parliament today and some of us are discussing this issue with the powers that be at the Albion tonight. If we can't get their backing for now I would still like the Club to say that they do not oppose other Clubs from implementing it.

Has the club actually said they oppose it at other clubs?

 

[El Presidente]

Thirteen clubs have said they are willing to back a pilot scheme for safe standing:

Aston Villa
Brentford
Bristol City
Burnley
Cardiff City
Crystal Palace
Derby County
Doncaster Rovers
Hull City
Peterborough United
Plymouth Argyle
Watford
AFC Wimbledon

 

[jonny.rainbow]

To be honest I don't buy Barber's response about the North Stand concourse being too small to cope with expansion in terms of space and facilities. Most away grounds we go to have far smaller concourses with minimal kiosks and toilet facilities.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thirteen clubs have said they are willing to back a pilot scheme for safe standing:

Aston Villa
Brentford
Bristol City
Burnley
Cardiff City
Crystal Palace
Derby County
Doncaster Rovers
Hull City
Peterborough United
Plymouth Argyle
Watford
AFC Wimbledon

Only one from the Premier League.

 

[Mayfair Seagull]

Only one from the Premier League.

Other Prem clubs are now VERY close to supporting it apparently.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The club won't introduce it all the time we are doing well though because it would essentially mean getting less money per head in ticket sales. All very well saying people would pay the same if they could stand, but that ignores a big plus of the idea in that it would make matches more affordable.

I appreciate that, the point I was making above was that one of the main points of having safe standing is you can make tickets cheaper and more affordable. If you end up charging the same amount as it is now it just sort of defeats the object.

I totally disagree with this, and I think by focussing on the point of cheaper tickets we are shooting ourselves in the foot. People who want to stand aren't bothered by cost, that isn't the point and never will be.

Paul Barber has stated that the club will never accept a drop in income, an that is fair enough.

We need to fight this battle in terms of atmosphere and what that will bring to the team + the overall match experience for ALL 4 stands. Prices can stay the same as they are now, they are already cheaper than the rest of the ground.

 

[zego]

BBC website: "Standing at football: 13 clubs back pilot scheme"
11-Dec-2012 updated 16:33

Link: BBC Sport - Standing at football: 13 clubs back pilot scheme

Interesting page, links to other pages, 691 comments so far

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

To be honest I don't buy Barber's response about the North Stand concourse being too small to cope with expansion in terms of space and facilities. Most away grounds we go to have far smaller concourses with minimal kiosks and toilet facilities.

Yea, it does seem odd. I'd to know exactly what would not pass health and safety regulations if we were to increase the NS capacity..

 

[Rowdey]

Another joins us..

Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately Dame Tessa was unable to attend the event on 11th December. She is however very supportive of the campaign and will be signing the EDM this week.

With best wishes

Shamir

Shamir Patel
(Asst. to Rt. Hon. Dame Tessa Jowell MP)

 

[queens park pete]

Yea, it does seem odd. I'd to know exactly what would not pass health and safety regulations if we were to increase the NS capacity..

The issue is the overall stadium capacity is fixed at 30750. If safe standing came in, capacity could only be 30750, hence seating maximizes revenue over standing.
We might have problems demonstrating a successful travel plan to the council in order to push attendance capacity to say 33000 with safe standing, whether or not concourses could cope! Don't forget the NS has yet to take the extra corners yet- can be a squeeze in the S these days!