QPR - now relegated, will they have to pay their FFP fine?

[El Presidente]

bottle job

I've got a couple of German DVD's featuring that...........

 

[SweatyMexican]

QPR will almost never pay that fine, or get kicked out of the league. They'll have their lawyers all over it.

 

[sir albion]

Well if they get away with it we can all start overspending

 

[Ernest]

What a waste of time that was

 

[El Presidente]

Well if they get away with it we can all start overspending

True. Get your cheque book out then!

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

QPR have been in discussions with the FL for over six months. Fernandes is playing brinkmanship, and being a billionaire, can easily afford the lawyers fees that go along with this case.

He thinks he is above the League, time will tell.

If he is successful then do Forest, Blackburn and Leeds have a case to sue the FL for loss of earnings?

I didn't realise Blackburn got fined/had an embargo, now that would be interesting as they where in with a shout of the play offs till a few weeks before the end of the season.

It would have been interesting (and hilarious) if Leeds had gone down on the back of embargo's and then QPR get away with it

 

[El Presidente]

I didn't realise Blackburn got fined/had an embargo, now that would be interesting as they where in with a shout of the play offs till a few weeks before the end of the season.

It would have been interesting (and hilarious) if Leeds had gone down on the back of embargo's and then QPR get away with it

True. Forest were doing okay too but they also had an embargo in January.

 

[Acker79]

Is it possible that letting them into the league leaves them open to more punishments? If they are not allowed back in, the league don't have any control. It's why the fine wasn't paid while QPR were in the Premier League. By letting them in, it doesn't rule out a fine, and leaves on the table point deductions, transfer embargoes, etc. and perhaps it is easier to kick them out mid-season if they fail to pay the fine the independent panel agrees they have to, than it is to let them back into the league mid-season should the panel decides the fine is unfair.

 

[KZNSeagull]

It's true that they weren't in the FL when the rules were made, but they were aware of the rules when they joined the league. If they weren't happy with the rules, perhaps they should have given legal notice then?

Their chief executive, finance director and manager from 2013/14 have all left their jobs since QPR were promoted, which only leaves one person to keep on with this activity.

There are two ways in which they could be successful

(a) Persuade the courts that they only lost £8 million in 2013/14, which is the figure according to their accounts.........which looks fairly creative to me.
(b) Persuade the courts that FFP is illegal.

I don't think they'd have a case on that basis. Of course they wouldn't get a vote as they weren't in the League. When they joined the league, they would be deemed to accept the rules of that league, or not join. Otherwise we're basically saying that it is impossible for the league to have any rules at all, as there will always be clubs in the league that didn't vote for them.

I don't think it matters that other clubs have accepted the decisions.

Every single year, the League decides who is in which division. I don't think we've ever had a case where they have changed the teams based on the fact that one team has a new legal challenge. If the League are under pressure from QPR, but not from the teams would be promoted should QPR be kicked out, then they're being weak to let QPR start next season in the Championship.

One caveat that I think would be acceptable, is if QPR agreed upfront that they will pay the fine (in full, + interest) if that's what the court later determines - eg, regardless of whether they've been promoted back to the premier league or not, they will pay the fine.

I think the bits in bold are the crux. I would think that a court will rule that because they joined the championship after relegation, they implicitly agreed to the rules of the FL ie you joined the "club" and therefore agreed to abide by their rules.

The only reason I can think that the FL are "welcoming" QPR to the championship is precisely because of this legal challenge and the likelihood that it will not be resolved before the season starts. If they had not challenged it but refused to pay the fine, a solution was clear - kick them out. But they cannot do that whilst a court has to rule that the rules are legal, so the FL have to follow the normal procedure for now.

If the court rules that the rules are legal but QPR still refuse to pay the fine, then there will be some fun (assuming of course that QPR are still in the FL when this is finally resolved)

It's a mess and going to get messier I suspect

 

[Triggaaar]

But they cannot do that whilst a court has to rule that the rules are legal, so the FL have to follow the normal procedure for now.

I disagree that the league 'cannot' do anything until a court has ruled. Members' clubs make their decisions, they don't have to wait for rulings. It wouldn't make sense, because what if one of two clubs was being relegated? The League would have to make a decision, and it wouldn't make sense to change that decision if one of the clubs made a legal challenge, because if they did, the other club could then make a legal challenge - what would the league do then?

Say for example that were QPR to be relegated, than the position would go to the losers of the League 1 play-off final. What happens if they take the league to court?

 

[fat old seagull]

Well if they get away with it we can all start overspending

Bloody Hell Margaret what are you doing on here, I thought you'd gone to see your Mum.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I disagree that the league 'cannot' do anything until a court has ruled. Members' clubs make their decisions, they don't have to wait for rulings. It wouldn't make sense, because what if one of two clubs was being relegated? The League would have to make a decision, and it wouldn't make sense to change that decision if one of the clubs made a legal challenge, because if they did, the other club could then make a legal challenge - what would the league do then?

Say for example that were QPR to be relegated, than the position would go to the losers of the League 1 play-off final. What happens if they take the league to court?

I'm not sure I understand your scenario.

If the league kicked out QPR now and made up the numbers in the Championship from the leagues below, what happens if QPR win the court case and have to be re-instated? It would be less trouble to kick them out later if they lose the court case and refuse to pay the fine, then promote an extra team from all divisions below to make up the numbers.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not sure I understand your scenario.

If the league kicked out QPR now and made up the numbers in the Championship from the leagues below, what happens if QPR win the court case and have to be re-instated? It would be less trouble to kick them out later if they lose the court case and refuse to pay the fine, then promote an extra team from all divisions below to make up the numbers.

What if the clubs the lost the play-off final all sue the League? If the League keep QPR in, and then QPR lose the case and don't pay the fine, promoting clubs from the division below then will not help those that lose the finals this year.

And what happens if the court case is over a year, QPR lose the case, but in that time they're promoted back into the PL? Do QPR get to just stick their fingers up at the league and laugh?

I think this would be avoided if QPR agree now to pay the fine if they lose the case (ie, pay the fine whatever league they are then in, rather than choose to be kicked out of a league that they're no longer in anyway).

Can I just check - is their punishment supposed to be only a fine, and no transfer embargo?

 

[KZNSeagull]

What if the clubs the lost the play-off final all sue the League? If the League keep QPR in, and then QPR lose the case and don't pay the fine, promoting clubs from the division below then will not help those that lose the finals this year.

And what happens if the court case is over a year, QPR lose the case, but in that time they're promoted back into the PL? Do QPR get to just stick their fingers up at the league and laugh?

I think this would be avoided if QPR agree now to pay the fine if they lose the case (ie, pay the fine whatever league they are then in, rather than choose to be kicked out of a league that they're no longer in anyway).

Can I just check - is their punishment supposed to be only a fine, and no transfer embargo?

Yes, I see now. It's a mess. Off to beddybies now, so will think about it. It's a bloody mess.

Yes, just a fine. No embargo

 

[jgmcdee]

My only comment on this is that I don't care if they manage to finagle their way out of the fine, as far as I'm concerned they are anything but "welcomed" back in to the championship. Even if they pay the fine they're still about £125m better off than if they hadn't bought their promotion thanks to the ludicrous parachute payments.

It's honestly becoming difficult for me to generate any joy in the professional game, all I see are opportunists, lawyers and scoundrels.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Knowing our luck we'll beat QPR home and away before the judgement is made , then they'll be expelled next March for refusing to pay the fine and all their results will be expunged.

 

[Blackadder]

Seems to be different rules for different clubs. QPR have already bought players. Blackburn can't.

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13335832._/?ref=mac

 

[portslade seagull]

Seems to be different rules for different clubs. QPR have already bought players. Blackburn can't.

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13335832._/?ref=mac

Makes a complete mockery of FFP

 

[Acker79]

Seems to be different rules for different clubs. QPR have already bought players. Blackburn can't.

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13335832._/?ref=mac

I think the theory is:

If you fail FFP, you have essentially risked more money that you don't have than you are permitted in an effort to win a minimum £100m from Premier League riches. The punishments are set up so to reduce the benefits of successful cheating, and punish unsuccessful cheating without risking the cheating clubs' existence while helping them to bring their budgets under control.

If you get promoted, you win the £100m. It more than covers your losses from the FFP failing season. To put people off doing this, you fine them so much that the gains a team makes are reduced to the point it isn't worth the risk. If you wait for them to get relegated then ban them from transfers, it might not be much of a punishment, as they will come down with a significant number of premier league players, so they won't really suffer.

If you don't get promoted, you don't get the money to cover your debts. If you fine a club in debt, fines could go beyond punishment and possibly cause serious problems for the existence of a club. Instead a transfer embargo restricts a club from continuing to cheat and creates repurcussions for their next league campaign, while also forcing a club in debt to get into financial shape.

 

[jamie the seagull]

QPR are due 20% of any future transfer of Raheem Sterling.
Liverpool paid £600k to QPR and the last offer from Man City was £40m.
So that is £7.8m due to QPR if accepted.
Would explain why Liverpool are holding out for £50m.