Panorama Tonight - 28th May

[Ali_rrr]

I think the problem is Ukraine more than Poland. Poland is an alright country, Ukraine is just a shithole.

 

[chucky1973]

Why write off whole nations because of a few f***ing numpties ? 40 000 000 people live in Poland and most are decent people that have rebuilt their nation after the Nazi's tried their level best to rape it, for that they have my respect.

To be fair Uncle, My comment was aimed at those animals you saw in the programme, and yes unfortunatley that puts me off visiting the place where they live and roam the streets. Its probably a great place to visit, but I want to feel safe when i go to these places and I wouldnt if I visted either of the above having seen that last night. I think its very widespread in there society, not just related to football. But your right, its just a minororty albeit a larger minority that other places and the rest deserve the respect of how they have rebuilt there lives.

 

[Pbseagull]

The most worrying aspect from the programme last night was the lack of any action from either the Police or Stewards at the matches shown, the scenes at the end with the Asian students getting a battering from their own fans was just sickening, the interview with the students after the game when they said that the Police would not help them get away safely from the stadium made me bloody angry. Why anyone should be warned against travelling to a football tournament in Europe( In fact anywhere in the world) just because of their skin colour in this day and age is nothing short of outrageous.

 

[Gritt23]

I can actually see a catastrophe happening and UEFA blaming England fan behaviour!!

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. UEFA already have their mind made up that Ukraine are good and England are bad, so when our fans get beaten shitless in the Ukraine game it has to be our fault somehow. The pictures that come out will be of the England fans trying to defend themselves, but UEFA will have to blame us because otherwise, the question will be "why did UEFA ever think the Ukraine was up to hosting this tournament?" They can't have that, so it will simply be a case of "Ukraine is perfectly safe, and an excellent choice, but maybe we should have banned English fans from travelling."

It's utter, utter madness from UEFA, but what else would you expect from them?

 

[SK1NT]

backwards nation... sickening scenes...

i saw a similar program on sky sports saying they were going to get black people but were relishing attacking the (white) english to... They said the English were the ones to beat and they have been training etc... really pathetic primal stuff... prob still light fires with stones.

 

[Falkor]

anyone remember a newpaper article after we played Millwall away once that suggested that 1000 bha fans sung sieg heil and gestured when we were, of course chanting seagulls

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

From seeing two parts of both documentaries it looks like the idiot fans are more in the minority than the majority, the authorities, fifa etc should be encouraging people from every walk of life to attend and make/take every possible measure to protect visitors and stop a few extremists ruining it for the majority.

I would imagine that overall (like in the stadiums shown) the majority are excited and will put on a hospitable and great show.

The worst part of the show was the Asian students being attacked and the lack of action taken to protect them and pursue the attackers, ultimatums should be put down and threats to move games if these clubs/cities cannot manage to control violent thugs in and around the ground/citys.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Dont forget we played in the Ukraine in October 2009 and there was NO trouble.

England Away: A v Ukraine 10.10.2009

I am going and dont expect major problems. Dont foget the scare stories when Euro 96 was in England and they showed the Brighton v York match as reasons why Euro 96 was going to be a bloodbath!

There were some shocking scenes in the programme but you can make any country look bad.

UEFA will say that they hold tournaments in countries like Poland and Ukraine to drag them into the 21st century otherwise nothing changes.

Good post Mark, you probably more than most on here are qualified to give opinion on what its like following England abroad

Exactly. Who can remember all the doom & gloom warnings before the World Cup in South Africa about robberies and murders?

 

[leigull]

Exactly. Who can remember all the doom & gloom warnings before the World Cup in South Africa about robberies and murders?

And as soon as the Euro's are over it will be onto whether or not Brazil will be ready in time for 2014 and how unsafe it will be there.

 

[Storer 68]

To be fair Uncle, My comment was aimed at those animals you saw in the programme, and yes unfortunatley that puts me off visiting the place where they live and roam the streets. Its probably a great place to visit, but I want to feel safe when i go to these places and I wouldnt if I visted either of the above having seen that last night. I think its very widespread in there society, not just related to football. But your right, its just a minororty albeit a larger minority that other places and the rest deserve the respect of how they have rebuilt there lives.

We had a few riots here last summer that everyone here got very upset about. Now , was that a completely accurate pictire of living in the UK in 2011??

 

[kevo]

And as soon as the Euro's are over it will be onto whether or not Brazil will be ready in time for 2014 and how unsafe it will be there.

And then we have the following World Cup in Russia in 2018...!

 

[Simster]

I'd have a felt a whole lot more comfortable if the whole show had been recorded by a non-British broadcaster. People will talk about the anti-English nature of UEFA but for the BBC of all people to knock on Platini's door with evidence of racism and crowd disorder really beggars belief.

Did the BBC going marching into FIFA or UEFA HQs before pretty much every single international tournament held in Europe in the 70s, 80s and 90s to ask them what they were going to do about the appalling numbers of English hooligans hell bent on ruining these events? I think not. And lets be clear, hooligans in England disgraced this country - and people were killed as a result.

My suspicion is that inside the stadia, we won't see any problems at all, and there will be hundreds of police on hand. These nations are now in the public eye across Europe so it is nonsensical to assume that the problems seen in inconsequential domestic games and only filmed by a single undercover reporter on a month long reccie desperate to see some trouble, will be replicated in the international tournament.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

it is nonsensical to assume that the problems seen in inconsequential domestic games and only filmed by a single undercover reporter on a month long reccie desperate to see some trouble, will be replicated in the international tournament.

It's not nonsensical at all. There are tens of thousands of extremely violent 'Nazis' who actively follow football in the two host nations of the European Championships.

I'd say the fact that it was filmed by one undercover journalist makes it even more significant. They weren't there for a year, they were there for a month and saw a hideous amount of racism including a totally unprovoked battering of those indian guys.

Now, I'm a bit brown and you'd be f***ed if you think I'd nip over to the euros expecting to party with the locals after watching that.
It wasn't just the odd few people chanting either, it was 2000 + at one match. I'll be honest, if I knew of an area in England where 2000 people might attack you because of the colour of your skin, I'd probably avoid it.

 

[chucky1973]

We had a few riots here last summer that everyone here got very upset about. Now , was that a completely accurate pictire of living in the UK in 2011??

thats different, that was a one off. to put it in perspective, are other nations competing at the olympics, doing panarama specials on living in England, Race problems, nazi gangs rooming streets. Im not so sure.

 

[Springal]

Is this a new thing? Just when I went to Dnipro 2 years ago for our WC qualifier, I did not see any of this, nor did anyone I met on the trip. And if the English are such targets, why did nothing happen in a tiny town? Odd.

While there obviously IS a problem in parts of the Ukraine, I can't help but feel, they spent months out there trying to find a story, and could only cobble together a 30 minute episode from it.

 

[chucky1973]

I'd have a felt a whole lot more comfortable if the whole show had been recorded by a non-British broadcaster. People will talk about the anti-English nature of UEFA but for the BBC of all people to knock on Platini's door with evidence of racism and crowd disorder really beggars belief.

Did the BBC going marching into FIFA or UEFA HQs before pretty much every single international tournament held in Europe in the 70s, 80s and 90s to ask them what they were going to do about the appalling numbers of English hooligans hell bent on ruining these events? I think not. And lets be clear, hooligans in England disgraced this country - and people were killed as a result.

My suspicion is that inside the stadia, we won't see any problems at all, and there will be hundreds of police on hand. These nations are now in the public eye across Europe so it is nonsensical to assume that the problems seen in inconsequential domestic games and only filmed by a single undercover reporter on a month long reccie desperate to see some trouble, will be replicated in the international tournament.

I agree about inside the stadium, but a lot of the English fans will be there for 2 weeks (more hopefully), the football last for 90 minutes, its the protection that these fans will get the rest of the time. Im not so sure it will be that great and looking at last nights programme it appears that there is thousands of nasty "football fans" waiting for them.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

I agree about inside the stadium, but a lot of the English fans will be there for 2 weeks (more hopefully), the football last for 90 minutes, its the protection that these fans will get the rest of the time. Im not so sure it will be that great and looking at last nights programme it appears that there is thousands of nasty "football fans" waiting for them.

Why would England fans be any more of a target than Italian, German or Dutch fans?

 

[chucky1973]

Why would England fans be any more of a target than Italian, German or Dutch fans?

Any nation will be targeted I think. English fans are just more of a prize.

 

[Simster]

It's not nonsensical at all. There are tens of thousands of extremely violent 'Nazis' who actively follow football in the two host nations of the European Championships.

I'd say the fact that it was filmed by one undercover journalist makes it even more significant. They weren't there for a year, they were there for a month and saw a hideous amount of racism including a totally unprovoked battering of those indian guys.

Now, I'm a bit brown and you'd be f***ed if you think I'd nip over to the euros expecting to party with the locals after watching that.
It wasn't just the odd few people chanting either, it was 2000 + at one match. I'll be honest, if I knew of an area in England where 2000 people might attack you because of the colour of your skin, I'd probably avoid it.

I'm sorry, but I'm struggling to believe the Ukranians won't police these stadiums properly, given the profile of the tournament. The biggest disgrace last night was the lack of official assistance for those Indian guys and the indifference from the police that one of the Indians then alluded to. I just don't see that sort of thing happening.

I think there is more of a risk of trouble away from the stadiums to be honest, but we were told even by the reporter that racism isn't really a major issue away from football, so I'd be genuinely surprised if brown skinned people encountered trouble. That said, I can sympathise with those who do decide it simply isn't safe - it's a real shame no-one trusts UEFA to have made a decision based on important things such as visitor safety really.

 

[kevo]

The fall-out has begun, with head of Ukraine's organisers calling Sol Campbell's comments "insolent" and the Ukranian foreign minister saying that Nazi symbols can be seen at any football ground in England.

BBC Sport - Euro 2012: Ukraine hits back after Sol Campbell warns fans