No guarantee of help for disabled passengers, says Southern

[pastafarian]

You gave an example where one person said he wasn't offended. And I'm not challenging that. My view that "most" disabled people object to the term "wheelchair bound" is based on years of experience of working with a very large number of wheelchair users and other people with other disabilities, to say nothing of my own opinion as an occasional wheelchair user.

thats fair enough
all i have done is give you an example where all your years of training and qualifications mean nothing are not relevant and do not apply in this certain instance.
Its clearly not catch all offensive to everyone.
I very much doubt he is the only wheelchair bound person in the country who doesnt find the term offensive.
In fact he finds the term as per the example given more liberating as it aids describing his needs better than simply saying "im a wheelchair user". Not sure why you would deny him using this term.
He is of an older generation though and really doesnt like being patronised......that he does find very annoying.

 

[pastafarian]

Hopefully they're doing so only when with him because it is the term he likes to use. They shouldn't be using the term in their normal work.

.

So if you know a black person who refers to themselves as a ******, or a gay person who refers to themselves as a fag***, does that mean it's ok for everyone to use those terms? No, of course not.

You are contradicting yourself here somewhat
its ok to use the term "bound" if the disabled person likes it but you wont call a gangbanger who likes to be called N a N or a gay person who likes to be called
a wonderful fag like Milo Yiannopoulos a fag because thats too offensive.

if its offensive then surely its offensive
you now have served up varying degrees of being offended according to type
what is your cut off point by how offended someone is before you stop being offensive?

Perhaps we should call disabled people beggars right, since that's what they used to have to do to live.

why?, you have taken a discussion and taken it to a complete extreme, which no one has proposed or could rationally deem a relevant outcome.

no point in an argument here trigger
just pointing out some people are not offended even if its claimed its across the board offensive like you did

Wheelchair user please. They're (hopefully) not chained in.

everything is not black and whte

 

[pastafarian]

once we're out of the jurisdiction of the ECJ, the rights of the disabled will disappear

No doubt by voting for Brexit it will allow any UK government to relax their disability laws as they do not need to be EU compliant

FAKE NEWS

No one has proposed disabled rights will be taken away when we leave, they will not disappear.

"And it is why, as we repeal the European Communities Act, we will convert the “acquis” – the body of existing EU law – into British law.
This will give the country maximum certainty as we leave the EU. The same rules and laws will apply on the day after Brexit as they did before"

All legislation will pass over.

some come on chaps why not share what disabled rights will be taken away when we leae.......please share your list of lost rights.........hate to think you are making it up

 

[Triggaaar]

You are contradicting yourself here somewhat
its ok to use the term "bound" if the disabled person likes it but you wont call a gangbanger who likes to be called N a N or a gay person who likes to be called
a wonderful fag like Milo Yiannopoulos a fag because thats too offensive.

No, you've misunderstood, I said if you know someone (eg someone who is gay) who likes those terms "does that mean it's ok for everyone to use those terms?" - so yes it's possible you could use a term in private with one individual person, but you wouldn't then call everyone else the offensive term.

if its offensive then surely its offensive
you now have served up varying degrees of being offended according to type
what is your cut off point by how offended someone is before you stop being offensive?

As above, you've misunderstood. It's offensive to use the term in a public forum relating to people you don't know, I'm not saying you shouldn't use the term with your own father if that's what he likes.

why?, you have taken a discussion and taken it to a complete extreme, which no one has proposed or could rationally deem a relevant outcome.

People call disabled people handicapped, meaning cap in hand - ie, beggar. I'm saying it's not ok to use certain terms (inc wheelchair bound), so if people here call the disabled handicapped am I allowed to say that's not the right term, or will you say "not sure this getting offended on behalf of other people lark who are not offended at all is all its cracked up to be"?

no point in an argument here trigger
just pointing out some people are not offended even if its claimed its across the board offensive like you did

You're misunderstanding. Just because some people (like you dad) don't find it offensive doesn't mean it isn't. Using you're logic you could say there are no offensive words at all, because there are some people wouldn't get offended.

everything is not black and whte

You seem to have got the idea that I'm saying there's no disabled person that wouldn't be offended - obviously I'm not, I'm simply pointing out that it is an offensive term and I offered an alternative.

 

[WonderingSoton]

I'm trying to educate you about what offends people and instead of taking the advice on board, you've chosen to be more insulting.
People get offended because the words are offensive. Just the same as how people realise some words are racist or homophobic - not because they were once inoffensive, but because people have woken up to the fact that they are offensive.
It's nothing to do with semantics, I just told you that the term is offensive, nothing more.
The fact that you don't care that your words cause offence says it all.

I'm not putting myself forward as a spokesperson for other people. I'm speaking as someone who has worked for thirty years as a provider of transport services for people with disabilities, bringing me into daily contact with a wide variety of transport service users.

My work included a three year term as a member of the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee (DPTAC), a statutory body that advises Ministers about matters relating to the transport needs of disabled people. DPTAC also has a role in regulating the performance of train operators in meeting their obligations under disability legislation. For what it's worth, my view is that Southern's current performance falls well below their obligations under the law.

The trouble is though, you've taken an important discussion over a genuine problem in which the guy was trying to get involved, and all you've done is distracted from the important point of the thread. All that does is put people off getting involved in these sorts of issues. People who otherwise may not come into daily contact with wheelchair users and so perhaps aren't going to know all the current correct lingo. As advocates for better disabled facilities you've become self defeating. Give him a break and get back to discussing the issue at hand of how Southern's practices can be fixed, surely that's more important?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The trouble is though, you've taken an important discussion over a genuine problem in which the guy was trying to get involved, and all you've done is distracted from the important point of the thread. As advocates for better disabled facilities you've become self defeating.

Weird post.

 

[mikeyjh]

This is what the right does, all the time - Take a very important subject and drag everyone in to a discussion about political correctness. Classic diversion.

 

[Gwylan]

FAKE NEWS

No one has proposed disabled rights will be taken away when we leave, they will not disappear.

"And it is why, as we repeal the European Communities Act, we will convert the “acquis” – the body of existing EU law – into British law.
This will give the country maximum certainty as we leave the EU. The same rules and laws will apply on the day after Brexit as they did before"

All legislation will pass over.

some come on chaps why not share what disabled rights will be taken away when we leae.......please share your list of lost rights.........hate to think you are making it up

You don't seem to know what "fake news" is. Fake news is when an untrue story is run on social media purporting to be true: an opinion isn't fake news. My post started "It wouldn't surprise me to see that law quietly changed ..." that's clearly not what will definitely happen but as we're still two years away from definitively leaving the EU, we have no idea what will happen.

My opinion is that they may well be changes to disability legislation - May has made it clear that there will be changes to business regulations and equal access may or may not be one of these changes. I don't know though (and nor do you).

 

[beorhthelm]

This is what the right does, all the time - Take a very important subject and drag everyone in to a discussion about political correctness. Classic diversion.

did i read that correctly? the right drag discussions into political correctness?

 

[WonderingSoton]

This is what the right does, all the time - Take a very important subject and drag everyone in to a discussion about political correctness. Classic diversion.

Now this is a weird post Tubthumper

 

[maltaseagull]

did i read that correctly? the right drag discussions into political correctness?

Apparently!

 

[spring hall convert]

People who otherwise may not come into daily contact with wheelchair users and so perhaps aren't going to know all the current correct lingo.

Ok, then it's good to educate them when this lack of awareness is causing offence, why it causes offence and what a suitable alternative might be. It's then entitled, ignorant and selfish to then subsequently dismiss that advice out of hand.

 

[darkwolf666]

Shameful that this will likely be the case and doubly shameful that the strikers are using the disabled card to try and garner public support.

Not it's not, they are just demonstrating exactly what they have been saying since this whole sorry saga started - the public, disabled or otherwise will suffer...

 

[spring hall convert]

did i read that correctly? the right drag discussions into political correctness?

Yeah, it happens on here all the time about racism and sexism

They tend to go like this;

Someone posts an example of a piece of news highlighting high profile sexism or racism
Someone else says that sexism and racism don't exist
Someone else evidences that it does
Thread then devolves into people that often post racist or sexist things arguing that they aren't racist or sexist.
Thread gets moved to 'other stuff.'
OP gets completely forgotten about.

Here's a good example - http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?341335-Is-this-really-necessary-in-the-UK

 

[janee]

No. I'm complaining too.

And me

 

[Triggaaar]

The trouble is though, you've taken an important discussion over a genuine problem in which the guy was trying to get involved, and all you've done is distracted from the important point of the thread. All that does is put people off getting involved in these sorts of issues. People who otherwise may not come into daily contact with wheelchair users and so perhaps aren't going to know all the current correct lingo.

All I said was "Wheelchair user please. They're (hopefully) not chained in."

Seriously, that was my entire post. I was polite and explained why the term 'bound' didn't make sense. That should not put people off getting involved. The poster decided to argue about it

As advocates for better disabled facilities you've become self defeating.

I'm not here trying to advocate better facilities, I was simply highlighting that a term is offensive. Reading this thread perhaps a few more people will know that.

Give him a break and get back to discussing the issue at hand

Are you kidding me? I was polite and said the term wasn't right, and he replied with "F off with your pc clap trap", and you want me to give him a break? Try reading the thread.

 

[spring hall convert]

Getting back to the matter at hand.

Isn't the point here that generally steps have been made in the last 20 years to make rail travel accessible for disabled passengers? Progress should continue to be made in the future and any roadblock or retrograde step is completely unacceptable in the context of the railway being an essential public service.

You can't on one hand say rail workers should be barred from striking as it is an essential public service but say it is an acceptable state of affairs to delay or row back on making the rail accessible to disabled people. Or is it only an essential public service for able bodied commuters paying 8 grand season tickets to London? It can't pick and choose its public service remit dependent on its audience.

 

[mikeyjh]

did i read that correctly? the right drag discussions into political correctness?

One poster politely, and correctly, requested another to use a more appropriate and modern word. The original poster could have accepted his/her mistake and moved on, instead triggaar was villified and told (quote) 'F off with your pc clap trap'. I imagine that life as wheelchair user throws up a few challenges here and there, treating such people with a little more respect might just be a good thing to do.

 

[spring hall convert]

One poster politely, and correctly, requested another to use a more appropriate and modern word. The original poster could have accepted his/her mistake and moved on, instead triggaar was villified and told (quote) 'F off with your pc clap trap'. I imagine that life as wheelchair user throws up a few challenges here and there, treating such people with a little more respect might just be a good thing to do.

No it's far better to have an debate, that <insert name of person that I know> doesn't mind it, therefore the point you are making is just lentil eating, politically correct, looney-left, vegan, liberal claptrap.

Or <insert name of high profile black/ disabled/ female/ homosexual person> uses that word therefore I should be able to.

I believe these are some of the 'diversionary tactics' you refer to.

 

[Hiney]

I can think of quite a few of our strikers over the years who looked like they were playing the disability card.