Malaysian airline crash

[Creaky]

Show me where the Ukrainian armed forces attacked Russians inside Crimea?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...an-separatists-retakes-three-villages-n146436

"KIEV, Ukraine - Four Ukrainian troops were killed as forces carried out over 100 attacks on rebel positions and cleared separatists from three villages in the last day, a military official said Wednesday."

 

[martyn20]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...an-separatists-retakes-three-villages-n146436

"KIEV, Ukraine - Four Ukrainian troops were killed as forces carried out over 100 attacks on rebel positions and cleared separatists from three villages in the last day, a military official said Wednesday."

Inside Crimea?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Nothing will be done,grieve,complain profusely and move on,other than a few attempt's at diplomatic solutions and sanctions,there really is nothing else that can be done,other than to start a journey down a very dangerous long and bitter road,a road to WAR-direct action is the only real answer and we all know that will not happen,over what could be classed as a partially self inflicted accident of sorts..

Cause and effect

Cause-fly over a war/conflict zone.
&
Effect-get caught in the crossfire.

 

[martyn20]

Nothing will be done,grieve,complain profusely and move on,other than a few attempt's at diplomatic solutions and sanctions,there really is nothing else that can be done,other than to start a journey down a very dangerous long and bitter road,a road to WAR-direct action is the only real answer and we all know that will not happen,over what could be classed as a partially self inflicted accident of sorts..

Cause and effect

Cause-fly over a war/conflict zone.
&
Effect-get caught in the crossfire.

There is only one thing that will sort out the Ukrainian/Crimea/which ever state is next crisis and that's to say goodbye to Putin

 

[dingodan]

There is only one thing that will sort out the Ukrainian/Crimea/which ever state is next crisis and that's to say goodbye to Putin

You might think that the world would be better if only world leaders would share your view.

The truth is, if world leaders thought in this way we probably would have stopped having a world a long time ago.

I get your passion, and I admire it. You have a slightly skewed view of this I think though.

 

[martyn20]

You might think that the world would be better if only world leaders would share your view.

The truth is, if world leaders thought in this way we probably would have stopped having a world a long time ago.

I get your passion, and I admire it. You have a slightly skewed view of this I think though.

I don't want to get rid of all world leaders that have a different view to myself, it's up to the people of those countries to choose their leaders.
Putin is different, he wants to hark back to a way of life his people rejected over 20 years ago and no election in Putin's Russian is ever going to be free and fair, not the way he deals with any political opponents.
He wants to go back to the Soviet era even if that's not what his people or the world want to see.

 

[Mackenzie]

He's back.

 

[Creaky]

The whole issue of Crimea's right to self determination and Russia's involvment in this can be debated until the cows come home.

The bottom line though is that the International Court of Justice has stated that there is no international law preventing them from claiming independence from the rest of Ukraine and in a poll, with a turnout of 86%, 96% voted to leave Ukraine and become part of Russia.

With such a clear majority vote there is no legal and very little, if any, moral reason why their wishes shouldn't be allowed.

 

[martyn20]

The whole issue of Crimea's right to self determination and Russia's involvment in this can be debated until the cows come home.

The bottom line though is that the International Court of Justice has stated that there is no international law preventing them from claiming independence from the rest of Ukraine and in a poll, with a turnout of 86%, 96% voted to leave Ukraine and become part of Russia.

With such a clear majority vote there is no legal and very little, if any, moral reason why their wishes shouldn't be allowed.

The international court has made no such ruling about Ukraine as far as I know, when did it happen. If you are talking about the Kosovo ruling that was not a binding precedent so only applies to that one case!

 

[sparkie]

Show me where the Ukrainian armed forces attacked Russians inside Crimea?

Maybe they just marched unarmed up to an occupied airbase singing the national anthem, with the russian invaders firing the only bullets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tFJKPHonm0

 

[martyn20]

He's back.

Who?

 

[martyn20]

Maybe they just marched unarmed up to an occupied airbase singing the national anthem, with the russian invaders firing the only bullets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tFJKPHonm0

Would I be right in saying that was Ukrainian soldiers trying to get back into their own bases which had been taken over by force by Russian Forces, on Ukrainian soil?

 

[sparkie]

Would I be right in saying that was Ukrainian soldiers trying to get back into their own bases which had been taken over by force by Russian Forces, on Ukrainian soil?

Yes, you are absolutely right.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

It's about time Angela Merkel got more involved. The one European leader Putin might just listen to.

Russia needs the west more than the west needs Russia.

So what if gas prices have to go up? IF it's proven that the Russian backed militants are responsible, then Europe, as a whole, has to stand together and act.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

As a simple observer its looks a bit Irish to me. Oh....................

 

[martyn20]

Statement from Putin just released, at 1:40am Moscow time

VLADIMIR PUTIN: In connection with the terrible tragic events that occurred in the skies over the Donets, I would like to say once again how we in Russia relates to events that are taking place in Ukraine.

We have repeatedly called on all warring parties to immediately stop the bloodshed and to sit down at the negotiating table. We can confidently say that if June 28 fighting in eastern Ukraine were not renewed, then this tragedy would not have happened for sure.

However, no one should not have the right to use this tragedy to achieve selfish political objectives. Such events should not divide but unite people. It is necessary that all the people who are responsible for the situation in the region improved their responsibility to their own people and to the peoples of those countries whose representatives have been victims of this disaster.

Everything must be done to ensure the safety of international experts on the scene. Today there are already working representatives of Donbass, Donetsk, representatives of Ministry of Ukraine, experts Malaysia. But this is not enough.

Need to work at the crash site a full team of experts under the auspices of ICAO, the corresponding international commission. We must do everything to ensure its full and absolute security, ensure necessary for its operation humanitarian corridors.

For its part, Russia will do all that we can to the conflict in eastern Ukraine moved from today's military phase to discuss the negotiating table exclusively peaceful and diplomatic means.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://kremlin.ru/news/46262 (translated version)

http://kremlin.ru/news/46262 (original)

 

[sparkie]

Statement from Putin just released, at 1:40am Moscow time



http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://kremlin.ru/news/46262 (translated version)

http://kremlin.ru/news/46262 (original)

Pathetic statement, time for sanctions to outlaw any financial dealings with Gazprom.

 

[martyn20]

Pathetic statement, time for sanctions to outlaw any financial dealings with Gazprom.

Feels like the squirming ramblings of a man backed into a corner trying to find a way out, his own rebels have made, and continue to make, a fool of him by their actions at the crash site.

 

[martyn20]

The Russian Public Has a Totally Different Understanding of What Happened to Malaysia Air Flight 17 And it's more of a problem than you think.

Did you know that the bodies that fell from Malaysia Air Flight 17 weren’t “fresh” and that the victims died several days before the flight? Did you know that, for some darkly inexplicable reason, on July 17, MH17 moved off the standard flight path that it had taken every time before, and moved north, toward rebel-held areas outside Donetsk? Or that the dispatchers summoned the plane lower just before the crash? Or that the plane had been recently re-insured? Or that the Ukrainian army has air defense systems in the area? Or that it was the result of the Ukrainian military mistaking MH 17 for Putin’s presidential plane, which looks strangely similar?......

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

A good read, this is why it's hard to see a free and fair Russia while Putin is around. The best theory being pedalled is that this plane was actually the missing Malaysian Flight MH370 which was hidden by the Americans on Diego-Garcia and then filled with corpses and flown over Ukraine to be shot down so the West could blame Russian and cause a war!

 

[sydney]

that statement is just pure political spiel......i doubt he really gives a shyte about a plain load of foreigners being shot down....watching the news these days is mind boggling....this , Gaza ,Iraq....worlds gone bonkers...!!