Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[dsr-burnley]

You're not really trying to defend this comment - if true - are you

I'm not defending the comment in itself. What I'm saying is that when you are discussing things like a pandemic, nothing should be considered unsayable - it should all be said in private discussion so that minds can be made clear as to what is acceptable, what is unacceptable, and what is totally beyond the pale.

It is a valid argument that letting older people die in greater numbers to save lives of younger people is the right way to go. It had to be discussed. The decision was that in this circumstance it was not the right way to go, and once that decision has been made (and agreed to by the PM), all the heated words and raised voices that contributed to that discussion should be forgotten, not put on public record.

We all know that in trying to get a point across, we use hyperbole. Not every word we ever say should be taken as a literal expression of what we mean. For the better running of the country, the PM should be allowed to hold private discussions where he can do the same.

 

[darkwolf666]

I'm not defending the comment in itself. What I'm saying is that when you are discussing things like a pandemic, nothing should be considered unsayable - it should all be said in private discussion so that minds can be made clear as to what is acceptable, what is unacceptable, and what is totally beyond the pale.

It is a valid argument that letting older people die in greater numbers to save lives of younger people is the right way to go. It had to be discussed. The decision was that in this circumstance it was not the right way to go, and once that decision has been made (and agreed to by the PM), all the heated words and raised voices that contributed to that discussion should be forgotten, not put on public record.

We all know that in trying to get a point across, we use hyperbole. Not every word we ever say should be taken as a literal expression of what we mean. For the better running of the country, the PM should be allowed to hold private discussions where he can do the same.

Yes, everything should be up for discussion, but it's the wording used, if accurate, that shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding of the common man and woman on the street...

Mr Johnson becomes more of a parody of his position every day and more like Jim Hacker from Yes Prime Minister.

 

[crodonilson]

Cases now up 18% week on week, and more worryingly hospital admissions up 11% week on week, was really hoping the inevitable sharp rise in cases from prematurely opening indoors with a more transmissible variant would not affect hospitalisations but shows vaccines aren't perfect and we need to get more people vaccinated asap or roll back the stage 3 reopening.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Cases now up 18% week on week, and more worryingly hospital admissions up 11% week on week, was really hoping the inevitable sharp rise in cases from prematurely opening indoors with a more transmissible variant would not affect hospitalisations but shows vaccines aren't perfect and we need to get more people vaccinated asap or roll back the stage 3 reopening.

But they may be admitting less-ill people to hospital now - those that couldn't be admitted previously as the beds were all prioritised for more serious cases.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

But they may be admitting less-ill people to hospital now - those that couldn't be admitted previously as the beds were all prioritised for more serious cases.

There was always going to an exit wave.

I’m not sure where the idea of vaccines being perfect as come from either.

This is madness now, all rational has gone.

 

[Yoda]

Cases now up 18% week on week, and more worryingly hospital admissions up 11% week on week, was really hoping the inevitable sharp rise in cases from prematurely opening indoors with a more transmissible variant would not affect hospitalisations but shows vaccines aren't perfect and we need to get more people vaccinated asap or roll back the stage 3 reopening.

We've basically been told to forget the daily announced new case figure as they include a large portion of LFT that could be a false positive and to focus on the Specimen date figures as any subsequent negative PCR for the same person has their positive removed from this. The 7 day average on this only goes up to 17th due to the lag and only shows a marginal rise of roughly 150 cases to 2265.5 per day.

Yes, there's been a small rise in new hospital admissions from a small base number but, there are less people in hospital this week than there were last, so still more people are being discharge and going in. As has been pointed out above, these may be slightly less severe cases that would not normally be admitted during a peak and so not needing as long being treated.

Perspectives, perspectives.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We've basically been told to forget the daily announced new case figure as they include a large portion of LFT that could be a false positive and to focus on the Specimen date figures as any subsequent negative PCR for the same person has their positive removed from this. The 7 day average on this only goes up to 17th due to the lag and only shows a marginal rise of roughly 150 cases to 2265.5 per day.

Yes, there's been a small rise in new hospital admissions from a small base number but, there are less people in hospital this week than there were last, so still more people are being discharge and going in. As has been pointed out above, these may be slightly less severe cases that would not normally be admitted during a peak and so not needing as long being treated.

Perspectives, perspectives.

Following on from this


https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1397451916532125696?s=20

 

[e77]

Following on from this


https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1397451916532125696?s=20

In summary: Get your vaccination when it is offered.

 

[crodonilson]

In summary: Get your vaccination when it is offered.

This is absolutely key, getting as near nigh on everyone including children double vaccinated will be our route out of this, until we get a significant proportion (75%+) fully vaccinated and protected I think we will need to keep some mitigation methods.

 

[DumLum]

I was wondering how many people have had the Moderna Vaccine at the Brighton Centre?
I had it the first day they got stock. Is it going to be an issue getting the 2nd jab? I have already changed my 2nd appointment from a village in Kent to the Brighton Centre to increase the likelihood of another Moderna vaccine being available. However I have just had a text telling me to rebook (hopefully they have their wires crossed) but when you do call 119 they can't tell you what will be available at a particular location. Anybody else have this text message?

 

[crodonilson]

Cases now up over 20% week on week. deaths up 14% and admissions to hospital up 20%. This is very concerning, and albeit the respective numbers are low, they too were low in early March last year and late August and the government did nothing when it could while cases were managable and look at the mess we ended up in. In a straight race between vaccinations and the virus it looks like the virus is edging ahead again.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Cases now up over 20% week on week. deaths up 14% and admissions to hospital up 20%. This is very concerning, and albeit the respective numbers are low, they too were low in early March last year and late August and the government did nothing when it could while cases were managable and look at the mess we ended up in. In a straight race between vaccinations and the virus it looks like the virus is edging ahead again.

Vaccinations 883,577. Admissions to hospital 112. In a straight race, vaccinations just have the edge.

Forget lockdown. The question is whether the vaccines work or whether they don't, and all the evidence remains on the side of "they work".

 

[crodonilson]

Vaccinations 883,577. Admissions to hospital 112. In a straight race, vaccinations just have the edge.

Forget lockdown. The question is whether the vaccines work or whether they don't, and all the evidence remains on the side of "they work".

Which is great for the 90% of over 50's who have antibodies to covid but not so great for the 2.5m+ of that age group who do not and are at risk, and even with both doses 5 of the 49 currently in hospital in Bolton probably thought they were fully protected, not to mention the many millions of younger people yet to receive either any does or their 2nd dose.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Which is great for the 90% of over 50's who have antibodies to covid but not so great for the 2.5m+ of that age group who do not and are at risk, and even with both doses 5 of the 49 currently in hospital in Bolton probably thought they were fully protected, not to mention the many millions of younger people yet to receive either any does or their 2nd dose.

It doesn't matter whether they have antibodies or not. What matters is that they can produce them when needed. I suspect few of us have antibodies for measles, but that doesn't mean we are vulnerable because the vaccine as a child has taught our bodies how to fight off the virus.

These 5 people who are double jabbed - what are they in hospital for? Are they seriously ill with covid, or did they go into hospital with something else and just happen to have covid? Remember that the vaccine does not stop you breathing in the virus and getting it into your lungs. What the vaccine does is train your immune system to kill the virus after it is established. Are these 5 people long term ill, or did they just happen to be tested during the few days when the virus was inside them and hadn't yet been defeated?

And what about the the many millions of younger people yet to receive any vaccine? They're getting on with it. In the meantime, the mortality rate so far of people in the 20-30 range was about 6 per million while the pandemic was raging. And that includes those who were already at risk of dying of something else, which is the majority of the young people deaths, and the people in that particular danger were vaccinated early. So take 6 people per million per year, divide it by 10 because the virus is so much less prevalent, divide it by 12 because we're only talking about one month, divide it by 2 or 3 because we're leaving out the already-vaccinated unhealthy people - how many lives do you think further advanced lockdown might save?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Which is great for the 90% of over 50's who have antibodies to covid but not so great for the 2.5m+ of that age group who do not and are at risk, and even with both doses 5 of the 49 currently in hospital in Bolton probably thought they were fully protected, not to mention the many millions of younger people yet to receive either any does or their 2nd dose.

It would be good to know if any of those 5 had only recently had needle 2 and also if any actually had the virus before the 2nd injection.

 

[Yoda]

It would be good to know if any of those 5 had only recently had needle 2 and also if any actually had the virus before the 2nd injection.

Weren't they said to be extremely frail as well?

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

It would be good to know if any of those 5 had only recently had needle 2 and also if any actually had the virus before the 2nd injection.

According to this, which is part of a thread [MENTION=522]Kinky Gerbils[/MENTION] shared earlier, the people who have been hospitalised after both doses have underlying health conditions. Also another tweet in the thread says less people being hospitalised are needing critical care due to the age of those in hospital being younger.

[tweet]1397451922802626562[/tweet]

 

[atomised]

Dr Harries is coming across far more positive than Hancock this afternoon.

 

[beorhthelm]

I've decided against getting vaccinated, however I am taking the lateral flow test twice a week.

I find it a really unpleasant experience. Makes me gag and my eyes water. Would be nice if they found a better way to test for it!

getting the vaccine would solve that. why decided against?

 

[beorhthelm]

Which is great for the 90% of over 50's who have antibodies to covid but not so great for the 2.5m+ of that age group who do not and are at risk, and even with both doses 5 of the 49 currently in hospital in Bolton probably thought they were fully protected, not to mention the many millions of younger people yet to receive either any does or their 2nd dose.

i'd say near 100% of people admitted to hospital didnt think that would happen to them today. in 2018, 29k died of influenza, most would have had their flu jab and thought they were protected. you really need to readjust your risk perception.