[Football] Love the Goldfish, hate the water....

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, I have loved our time in the PL, especially post-CH (as brilliant as he was for the club). It's the audacity of us taking on 'bigger' (or dirtier) clubs, of challenging them despite the fact that our finances are dwarfed by their dirty lucre, and that Bloom and his merry gang have to find other ways than that filthy lucre to compete with them and, at times, out-compete them. To be able to watch Caicedo, Ali Mac, Tross, etc in my local club's colours is a sheer joy.
That said, it's not just the filthy lucre and the filthy operatives in the PL, the Championship is a much more interesting competition although, it's worth noting, that most clubs get into debt trying to get into the PL with its out-sized prize money just for getting the gig.

I don't really think we will be back in the Championship in 18 months.

I still watch the championship (when there is no EPL game on the box) and it is fun. But compared with the ELP (and that includes us) the quality is shite. And to put that into wider context, they occasionally show 'league 1' (division 3 in old money) on the telly and the standard is better than the old division 1 in the 70s, with their cigarettes at half time and ten pints after the game.

Things, on average, improve. Innit.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I don't really think we will be back in the Championship in 18 months.

I still watch the championship (when there is no EPL game on the box) and it is fun. But compared with the ELP (and that includes us) the quality is shite. And to put that into wider context, they occasionally show 'league 1' (division 3 in old money) on the telly and the standard is better than the old division 1 in the 70s, with their cigarettes at half time and ten pints after the game.

Things, on average, improve. Innit.

If you were being honest H you'd admit to having absolutely ZERO idea whether the 'old division 1 in the 70s' was better or worse or identical to the standard nearly half a century later.

Where's me washboard?

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I don't really think we will be back in the Championship in 18 months.

I still watch the championship (when there is no EPL game on the box) and it is fun. But compared with the ELP (and that includes us) the quality is shite. And to put that into wider context, they occasionally show 'league 1' (division 3 in old money) on the telly and the standard is better than the old division 1 in the 70s, with their cigarettes at half time and ten pints after the game.

Things, on average, improve. Innit.

Do you really believe Derby County 2022 would beat Derby County 1972? Or Ipswich 2022 would beat Ipswich 1978?

I am not so sure.

However, I agree with most of your other points on this and the other thread you started earlier!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you were being honest H you'd admit to having absolutely ZERO idea whether the 'old division 1 in the 70s' was better or worse or identical to the standard nearly half a century later.

Where's me washboard?

I was there, mate. All over it

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Do you really believe Derby County 2022 would beat Derby County 1972? Or Ipswich 2022 would beat Ipswich 1978?

I am not so sure.

However, I agree with most of your other points on this and the other thread you started earlier!

Obviously it cannot be tested but yes. Yes I do. Derby of 1972, coached, fed, watered and smoked as of 1972, versus the clear-eyed fit lads of today? Yes.

Albeit using modern rules (which would have had Mackay, Hector and Hinton in an early bath, if they had been able to get near enough to a modern player to hack him down from behind like they did back then)

 

[Cheshire Cat]

But without the water, the goldfish dies.

 

[zefarelly]

Remove the corporates/crooks from looking after the water, ie remove the shit, and we can all swim safely

or is that a different thread?

greed kills.

 

[Icy Gull]

I am struggling to understand how you can hate water, unless it’s full of sewage!

 

[tronnogull]

Obviously it cannot be tested but yes. Yes I do. Derby of 1972, coached, fed, watered and smoked as of 1972, versus the clear-eyed fit lads of today? Yes.

Albeit using modern rules (which would have had Mackay, Hector and Hinton in an early bath, if they had been able to get near enough to a modern player to hack him down from behind like they did back then)

Hard to disagree with this. The top teams of any era had the most talented players of the day. Many of which players would have been fantastic with today's training and tactical regime. But watch some of the Div 1 games from back then ( our cup final for example ) and the technical ability of most the players and the team tactics are way behind League 1 ( Div 3 ) today. On the other hand they didn't dive and roll around on the ground at the slightest touch.......

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hard to disagree with this. The top teams of any era had the most talented players of the day. Many of which players would have been fantastic with today's training and tactical regime. But watch some of the Div 1 games from back then ( our cup final for example ) and the technical ability of most the players and the team tactics are way behind League 1 ( Div 3 ) today. On the other hand they didn't dive and roll around on the ground at the slightest touch.......

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have a time machine. However, if I did have one, I'd transport myself to the future

 

[portlock seagull]

Weirdly, now, in hindsight I wish they'd just f*** off now, go form the super league, let us get on with a competetive and fairer professional footballing competition.
FIFA/UEFA said they wouldn't tolerate or recognise the Super League, so if the teams go and do it, the rest of us will still have the Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, etc, and we could well have a shout of winning one or more of them.

Agree. Trouble is in a new set up the new big fish would immediately start bullying the smaller ones and so the wheel would be reinvented.

The root problem isn’t actually football. It’s a basic human condition. Greed. And it’s even harder to counter with globalisation. At least the game began with a sense of fairness and sporting contest here that’s been eroded over time. I very much doubt it started similarly in many other parts of the world. More likely KO with brown envelopes rather than pennants exchanged.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Hard to disagree with this. The top teams of any era had the most talented players of the day. Many of which players would have been fantastic with today's training and tactical regime. But watch some of the Div 1 games from back then ( our cup final for example ) and the technical ability of most the players and the team tactics are way behind League 1 ( Div 3 ) today. On the other hand they didn't dive and roll around on the ground at the slightest touch.......

The top teams in the 70s had the best players in Britain, with the occasional player from elsewhere. The top teams now have the whole world to pick from.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have a time machine. However, if I did have one, I'd transport myself to the future

I'm working on a time machine, I expect it to be working by last Tuesday.

 

[dazzer6666]

The football is secondary for me - I get to spend the day with my son who, now that he's flown the nest, I don't see as often as I'd like. Few drinks with friends - it's far more about the day that the football these days.

I do love the actual football we are playing, but detest the money that's in the game, VAR and the fact you have clubs owned by countries.

The day Bloom goes and we're owned by a Chinese/Thai/American/Russian etc. I'm out.

This.

 

[zefarelly]

I am struggling to understand how you can hate water, unless it’s full of sewage!

Keep up grandad, it is!

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Obviously it cannot be tested but yes. Yes I do. Derby of 1972, coached, fed, watered and smoked as of 1972, versus the clear-eyed fit lads of today? Yes.

Albeit using modern rules (which would have had Mackay, Hector and Hinton in an early bath, if they had been able to get near enough to a modern player to hack him down from behind like they did back then)

The top teams in the 70s had the best players in Britain, with the occasional player from elsewhere. The top teams now have the whole world to pick from.

Maybe it is about getting old and thinking things were better than they really were in the old days, but providing the refs were from the 70s, and no VAR, I still think the League Winners of Division 1 could beat League 1 Derby of today. However, I take the point that fitness levels and training methods, and styles of play have advanced so it is not a foregone conclusion and impossible to prove either way

I also take Sid’s point, most of that 70s Derby team would not get a look in at most PL or Championship teams today even if subjected to current fitness and training regimes, as they don’t come from Ecuador or Belgium or wherever. Many of those squad players would end up in League 1 or 2.

I also know I am contradicting myself from a previous thread when I received a kicking for suggesting that Dunk was as good a player than Lawrenson, for similar reasons to Harry’s point about fitness and standard of players he is up against. Would Lawro have been sold for £60 million to Liverpool if he had been playing for us now? It is one of those imponderables, like what would Einstein or Newton be able to come up with if they had access to today’s technology?

I watch my son play football, and they are coached to play lovely triangles and passing, and they can all do fancy flicks and turns and it’s good to want him. However, I know my 12 year old self and old team would wipe the floor with them, as we would play Wimbledon style aggressive route one and press from goal kicks and destroy them. Which in some respects is rather sad.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Maybe it is about getting old and thinking things were better than they really were in the old days, but providing the refs were from the 70s, and no VAR, I still think the League Winners of Division 1 could beat League 1 Derby of today. However, I take the point that fitness levels and training methods, and styles of play have advanced so it is not a foregone conclusion and impossible to prove either way

I also take Sid’s point, most of that 70s Derby team would not get a look in at most PL or Championship teams today even if subjected to current fitness and training regimes, as they don’t come from Ecuador or Belgium or wherever. Many of those squad players would end up in League 1 or 2.

I also know I am contradicting myself from a previous thread when I received a kicking for suggesting that Dunk was as good a player than Lawrenson, for similar reasons to Harry’s point about fitness and standard of players he is up against. Would Lawro have been sold for £60 million to Liverpool if he had been playing for us now? It is one of those imponderables, like what would Einstein or Newton be able to come up with if they had access to today’s technology?

I watch my son play football, and they are coached to play lovely triangles and passing, and they can all do fancy flicks and turns and it’s good to want him. However, I know my 12 year old self and old team would wipe the floor with them, as we would play Wimbledon style aggressive route one and press from goal kicks and destroy them. Which in some respects is rather sad.

No need for sadness. We have a load of good things now and are more aware of shitness, and more determined to deal with stuff. The human condition is . . . . pleasing

 

[pure_white]

Good thread. Yeah hate VAR to point i almost dont wanna watch PL football. Hate corporate game. Hate fixture changes and TV companies. Hate way fans come 2nd amd even last at times. Love the City BHA but loved a stroll through Hove via pub on corner rd nr ground, packet mints from petrol stn stones throw away and the surges on the terraces. Hate sardine trains. But do enjoy padded seat to be honest. Can be a love-hate relationship at times.

 

[mikeyjh]

Bit of a 'view from the outside' but I do tend to agree with the sentiment - I love my club just as much as I always have but despair at the state of the game and, by extension, many of the fans. VAR and money are two of the big things for me, as they are for many others. But more specifically is how much time is spent

Do you really believe Derby County 2022 would beat Derby County 1972? Or Ipswich 2022 would beat Ipswich 1978?

I am not so sure.

However, I agree with most of your other points on this and the other thread you started earlier!

I'm not sure Derby County of 2022 would beat Derby County of 1922

 

[GT49er]

Weirdly, now, in hindsight I wish they'd just f*** off now, go form the super league, let us get on with a competetive and fairer professional footballing competition.
FIFA/UEFA said they wouldn't tolerate or recognise the Super League, so if the teams go and do it, the rest of us will still have the Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, etc, and we could well have a shout of winning one or more of them.

It won't be like that though, will it. Actually going to matches probably won't change much, but all the other things we enjoy as football fans, be it the papers. MOTD, Sky Sports, Sky Sports News. Football Focus - even Talksport - all will be frothng at the mouth about the super league, and even if we do still have the EPL and the FA Cup etc., they'll get about as much coverage as League 1 does now.
They'll get about the same TV money too. Asset stripping? - you won't have seen nothing yet!