Labour closed more mines than the Tories!

[seagullsovergrimsby]

and the economic viability maybe?

Especially those pits breaking even in Yorkshire/Lancashire compared to those in Nottingham/Derbyshire

 

[Lenny Rider]

And he still wants the union to pay for his flat in the Barbican (£34k a year) and he wants them to pay for it for his widow after he's gone. His greed and selfishness is beyond compare.

And shes not even his widow, they have been divorced for almost a decade.

But the old witch was still on ITV the other night slagging Maggie off..........

 

[supaseagull]

I think you're confusing things here.

It's irrelevant how many coal mines were closed, it's the manner in which it was done is what caused the most issues.

Miners were literally given 2 weeks notice of cessation of employment, no redundancy payout and no pension.

The biggest issue though was that people who had worked all their life in mining communities just lost everything including their homes and the cost of the closures, even now far outweighed the cost of keeping them open.

The irony now is that many Conservaties accept that if we'dve continued coal production for just another 10 years then our current thirst for energy would not be half as reliant on foreign imports as it currently is and we would therefore be paying around 40% less than our electricity than we are now!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Reynauds Syndrome

Was that more commonly known as "vibration white-finger" 30 years ago ?

 

[Triggaaar]

The thing is, there were whole communities that were decimated by the closures of the pits. The pits weren't economical, some were practically empty and had to be closed, but it should have been done so much more carefully. Unfortunately the war between the government and Scargill & the minors meant that all efforts were concentrated on the war, not on making things better for the communities effected.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Yes i have heard that labour actually closed more mines.

However it wasn't down to the pit closures but the privatisation of everything that put Thatcher in a bad light... It was inevitable that the mines were going to close.

I still haven't been able to work out if we had enough money in the bank to bring the country forward and whether privatisation was genuinely the wrong option.

How much state owned industry is left in the world and where?

 

[SK1NT]

I still haven't been able to work out if we had enough money in the bank to bring the country forward and whether privatisation was genuinely the wrong option.

How much state owned industry is left in the world and where?

I think moving the country forward would have happened but much more slowly without privatisation... however be in a much better place at the end for it.

Im sure many countries have privatised but really to the extent we have

 

[jakarta]

Was that more commonly known as "vibration white-finger" 30 years ago ?

Yes - I spend a lot of my time doing hand arm vibration surveys for Clients and it has cost the Government (for which read You and Me) a lot of money to compensate ex-miners with Reynauds Syndrome, Silicosis, CPD, NIHL etc..

As I said a filthy industry, no-one should want it back.

 

[Hillian1]

I think you're confusing things here.

It's irrelevant how many coal mines were closed, it's the manner in which it was done is what caused the most issues.

Miners were literally given 2 weeks notice of cessation of employment, no redundancy payout and no pension.

The biggest issue though was that people who had worked all their life in mining communities just lost everything including their homes and the cost of the closures, even now far outweighed the cost of keeping them open.

The irony now is that many Conservaties accept that if we'dve continued coal production for just another 10 years then our current thirst for energy would not be half as reliant on foreign imports as it currently is and we would therefore be paying around 40% less than our electricity than we are now!

Didn't I read somewhere that because the strike had been going on for a year almost all of the pits would have been unable to open again because they required 24 hour care and attention to keep open?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

So nothing to do with Thatcher appointing McGregor as Chairman of the NCB after his hatchet jobs at British Leyland and British Steel ?

No, not a lot. Previous posters have clearly outlined how far back the coal industry went into decline and pits started closing. Scargill did a much better job at finishing off the industry than Thatcher or McGregor could ever have dreamed of doing.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The sad thing is that there was never much long-term planning about the mine closures, i.e. the retraining of the miners for other jobs, enterprise zones etc. I can remember the enterprize zones and foreign investment like Nissan coming in the early 80s, but this was too little, too late.

On a more local level, every time I pass the disused Shoreham Cement Works I wonder how a company was allowed to literally tear into the open countryside, extract, sell and then leave a complete mess for decades afterwards.

It is indicative of the short-termism and complacency that dogged politics in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

On a more local level, every time I pass the disused Shoreham Cement Works I wonder how a company was allowed to literally tear into the open countryside, extract, sell and then leave a complete mess for decades afterwards.

It is indicative of the short-termism and complacency that dogged politics in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Closed in 1991 after 150 years of industry. Who owns it now? I wish they would do something with it.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

No, not a lot. Previous posters have clearly outlined how far back the coal industry went into decline and pits started closing. Scargill did a much better job at finishing off the industry than Thatcher or McGregor could ever have dreamed of doing.

Thatcher knew full well that McGregor in charge of the NCB would get Scargill's back up.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think you're confusing things here.

It's irrelevant how many coal mines were closed, it's the manner in which it was done is what caused the most issues.

Miners were literally given 2 weeks notice of cessation of employment, no redundancy payout and no pension.

The biggest issue though was that people who had worked all their life in mining communities just lost everything including their homes and the cost of the closures, even now far outweighed the cost of keeping them open.

The irony now is that many Conservaties accept that if we'dve continued coal production for just another 10 years then our current thirst for energy would not be half as reliant on foreign imports as it currently is and we would therefore be paying around 40% less than our electricity than we are now!

partially. the problem is that most of the mining communities only existed in the location in the first place for the mine. there were no other jobs or sources of jobs, you could hardly expect the government to invent jobs to replace the mines. well i say that, of course thats exactly what some do expect. really the solution would be to move those communities, but where?

however there's no irony with foreign imports, there's no way coal from inefficient pits would have become efficient again. the world prices would have risen just the same and a large chunk of energy prices are from government policy to introduce greener sources. so the dirty mines would have shut anyway, and the prices would be the same today.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I still haven't been able to work out if we had enough money in the bank to bring the country forward and whether privatisation was genuinely the wrong option.

How much state owned industry is left in the world and where?

It's a good point. Nationalising anything nowadays scares foreign investors away. FDI into South Africa dropped hugely when the idea of nationalising the mines here was mooted.

 

[Superphil]

Thatcher knew full well that McGregor in charge of the NCB would get Scargill's back up.

Isn't that what politicians have been doing for years and years? Is having your "back got up" an excuse for anything?

 

[CheeseRolls]

I think you're confusing things here.

It's irrelevant how many coal mines were closed, it's the manner in which it was done is what caused the most issues.

Miners were literally given 2 weeks notice of cessation of employment, no redundancy payout and no pension.

The biggest issue though was that people who had worked all their life in mining communities just lost everything including their homes and the cost of the closures, even now far outweighed the cost of keeping them open.

The irony now is that many Conservaties accept that if we'dve continued coal production for just another 10 years then our current thirst for energy would not be half as reliant on foreign imports as it currently is and we would therefore be paying around 40% less than our electricity than we are now!

Note to self try and spend more time agreeing with people when they make sense and less time arguing mute points with morons.

 

[Diego Napier]

Another ridiculous myth about Thatcher quelled.

Like the one about the NHS cuts. Thatcher spent more on the NHS than Labour had done. FACT.

But the looney lefties just want someone to blame for their own failures.

Left wing politics never works. It's ideolistic baloney.

It's interesting to reflect on the old adage about steering clear of race, religion and politics in "social" interactions.

Your actively biased political railings across the thatcher threads and your denigration of anyone with socialist ideals does you no credit and has radically altered my view of you as a balanced envigilator.

I suppose the red mist can descend on moderator & moderated alike

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Isn't that what politicians have been doing for years and years? Is having your "back got up" an excuse for anything?

McGregor didn't want to negotiate on anything that would lead to a concession , Scargill adopted the same attitude and the rest is history.

 

[Triggaaar]

The biggest issue though was that people who had worked all their life in mining communities just lost everything including their homes

True.

and the cost of the closures, even now far outweighed the cost of keeping them open.

Not true. There's nothing to back that up.

The irony now is that many Conservaties accept that if we'dve continued coal production for just another 10 years then our current thirst for energy would not be half as reliant on foreign imports as it currently is and we would therefore be paying around 40% less than our electricity than we are now!

Eh? So if we'd have used our own coal (instead of imported) for another 10 years, what would we have been using after that, and how would that be different to now? That makes no sense at all. And keeping our coal industry going a little longer would have had no effect on the global price of energy today.