Junior Doctors Strike

[Ernest]

It's difficult to know who to believe.

On the one hand you have the junior doctors, all of whom have spent a minimum of five years at medical school, work up to 91 hours a week, are well educated and have a day to day knowledge and experience of the NHS. These are people who could have used their intellect to earn far more money working in the City of London, but for whatever reason, chose to dedicate themselves to healing the sick.

On the other hand there is Jeremy Hunt, a man who three months ago didn't even know the maximum hours being proposed in the new contract, had to pay back £9,500 of expenses because he didn't understand the form correctly (according to one Jeremy Hunt), and a few years ago called for the NHS to be dismantled as it was 'no longer relevant'. He has said that there are 11,000 deaths a year caused by the lack of a seven day NHS, whilst ignoring the findings of the report from which he quoted, which said "It is not possible to ascertain the extent to which these deaths may be preventable."

It's a tough call, why isn't there a 'maybe' option in the poll?

You forgot the Murdoch shenanigans too

 

[topbanana36]

How will the TTIP effect all this?

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

SPIN: “7 studies in the last fives years talk about the weekend effect…”
TRUTH: Not one study shows the ‘weekend effect’ is due to a lack of doctors, we already work 7 days a week under the current contract. There must be an ulterior motive what is it Jeremy? Save money? Privatise NHS?

The 7 days effect may be due to staffing but this is not because of lack of doctors. The problem is lack of physios, occupational therapists, nurses, radiographers, access to tests, bed availability, social care to support discharge etc.

Unfortunately politics must be dumbed down for soundbites - hospitals only contain doctors and nurses and we'll make them fix the problems!!

 

[haggis]

Trust Jeremy Hunt? This is the man who had discussions with Murdoch newspapers and BskyB over takeovers and phone hacking. He should have been sacked then and it is down to him that this strike is taking place because of his intransient attitude

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

How will the TTIP effect all this?

Could make doctors richer! Privatised healthcare systems pay more for doctors.

TTIP opens the possibility that corporations could sue the UK government for lack of access to healthcare services and sue for damages if any government decision impacts on their profits.

 

[El Presidente]

The lack of a 7 day NHS is also complete bollocks.

I went in for a colonoscopy a few months ago and that took place on a Saturday, there were loads of other operations and procedures taking place that day too.

If the government wants a true 7 day a week NHS, then you also need a 7 day a week social services and care policy, as otherwise there is no support mechanism to deal with patients who may need home care following a weekend operation.

There are plenty of intelligent people working on both side of the parliamentary divide, but Jeremy Hunt is not one of them.

 

[El Presidente]

Could make doctors richer! Privatised healthcare systems pay more for doctors.

True, healthcare spend in the US is 17.1% of GDP, compared to 9.1% in the UK
Life expectancy in the US is 78.7 years, compared to 81.5 years in the UK.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

True, healthcare spend in the US is 17.1% of GDP, compared to 9.1% in the UK
Life expectancy in the US is 78.7 years, compared to 81.5 years in the UK.

Yep, US doctors do pretty well!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I defend their right to strike, and their right to protest about pay and conditions (even if I do not agree), but don't insult me by saying it is about the future of the NHS and/or patient care.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35286343

In the post-Thatcher era, always some tvvat ready to have a pop at the rare group of workers with the temerity to strike, whether it be NHS staff, civil servants or tube drivers. It's a decision taken far from lightly nowadays.

And I for one DO insult you by saying it is about the future of the NHS and/or patient care. Push these dedicated pissed-upon healthcare professionals one step too far and they'll simply jump ship to the private sector or emigrate to a country like Oz where their skills are highly sought after and rewarded accordingly.As always, the Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[El Presidente]

Yep, US doctors do pretty well!

View attachment 71355

$243,000 a year to be a snatch inspector?

Where do I sign up?

 

[Seagull27]

It's hilarious that all of the government's assumptions are based on 'legal working hours'. I've never met a single NHS doctor or nurse who works within anywhere near the legal limits. An ex of mine would regularly (at least half of her shifts) be required to stay 1-2 hours after her 12 hour shift because there wasn't enough cover. Completely illegal, but completely necessary if she didn't want her patients to die.

 

[El Presidente]

MP's however voted themselves a 10% pay rise last summer, and parliament has sat FOUR times since 1945 at the weekend.

#JustSaying

 

[topbanana36]

So on average how much does a junior doctor earn?

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

So on average how much does a junior doctor earn?

Year 1 22, 636
Year 2 28,076
Year 3 30,002

Up to max £47,175 after 11 years.

Plus additional 40-50% for hours worked at night/weekends.

 

[El Presidente]

So on average how much does a junior doctor earn?

Average is £53,000, or to put it another way, a junior doctor earns in a year what Chris O'Grady allegedly earns in a month.

 

[trueblue]

Could the doctors not just move to the private sector if NHS pay wasn't competitive? Or are there not many openings in the private sector?

Or abroad. Which is precisely why it's important to the future of the NHS.

 

[topbanana36]

Average is £53,000, or to put it another way, a junior doctor earns in a year what Chris O'Grady allegedly earns in a month.

So who on NSC earns 53,000 on average. It would take me 2 and half years to earn that. I knew I should have studied another three more years

 

[Bold Seagull]

Year 1 22, 636
Year 2 28,076
Year 3 30,002

Up to max £47,175 after 11 years.

Plus additional 40-50% for hours worked at night/weekends.

Yeah, but what they do pails into insignificance compared to what an MP has to do for their £67,060 + expenses, or the life saving work a Cabinet Minister like Jeremy Hunt getting £134,565 + expenses (if you can work out the forms...) does.

Of course MP's didn't need to strike....they just voted in their pay rise. Simples.

 

[scamander]

didn't Hunt use a report which reported on deaths on Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon when moralising over a 7 day NHS? He conveniently lopped off the Mon/Fri so his stats related purely to the weekend.

Another politician with very strong relations with Murdoch.

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

It's hilarious that all of the government's assumptions are based on 'legal working hours'. I've never met a single NHS doctor or nurse who works within anywhere near the legal limits. An ex of mine would regularly (at least half of her shifts) be required to stay 1-2 hours after her 12 hour shift because there wasn't enough cover. Completely illegal, but completely necessary if she didn't want her patients to die.

Completely this.

My wife is a nurse and it is a total disgrace how they are treated.

A bit on the fence with the strike as I am with most strikes these days. They are lead by the union who have offered no support for my wife in her increment dispute (which she ended up winning by representing herself) yet are happy to take her money and have execs on high salaries that don't do a great deal.

There are so many different ways that money could be saved in the NHS, the middle management is laughable, half the senior nurses or ward sisters will sit in a room doing HR instead of being out on the wards and helping, this is while there are 6 nurses covering two full wards when the 'safe' number of nurses would be 15..

I guess for me, there are so many things that are fundamentally broken, as there are with many of the water companies and the shambles that was their privatisation. We either need to go back to basics and really start to sort out the intricacies which will take time and money, or find some way of a privatised service that is still free to everyone. I know it is thought of as evil, however there is a way that it could work properly and a private company would cut a lot of the crap out of the processes

However, I do completely understand that if privatised they will do it in a shambolic fashion and with rumours of back handers as the over privileged idiots that get elected seem to worry more about their own Bupa insured backsides than the people they are meant to represent