Garage_Doors
Originally the Swankers
I guess we lost 
Johnson out
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TheBlueAndWhiteStrips
Active member
Sussex Nomad
Well-known member
I'll never get up at 8.30am on a Saturday morning after an evening/night/morning of the amber stuff, including pub lock ins, to watch the egg chasing game again!
They don't seem to tackle like I was taught to, all this crash-stuff which comes from Rugby League. It's not the same when the player has to pass the ball out of the tackle rather than just hold onto it.
TACKLE LOW YOU MORONS...
Motogull
Todd Warrior
- Sep 16, 2005
- 9,980
Too many old mates and Leicester players being picked. Today, old mate Wilkinson and Leicester Flood both selected. Should have been a specialist centre out there; imagine the trickery of Hape combined with the physicality of Manu. We seem to be short of world class 8s and 10s too but that ain't MJ's fault.
Behind Enemy Lines
Well-known member
It was a World Cup quarter-final, a big sporting event so I got up and watched it. Have to confess I know very little about rugby but as a sporting spectacle "running rugby" is bloody exciting. Also, it has to be said there's something enthralling about watching huge blokes knocking seven bells out of each other and that's accepted as being "part of the game." But I digress.
What I want to know from someone who knows a bit about rugby is why have we played such bad rugby and generally been piss poor in this World Cup? Players not up to it? Tactics, poor coach? Or rather like their footballing counterparts, are the quarter-finals about our level?
And what was wrong with Clive Woodward? Didn't he want to come back or was it RFU politics which prevented his return? Would that have been a good thing or not?
What I want to know from someone who knows a bit about rugby is why have we played such bad rugby and generally been piss poor in this World Cup? Players not up to it? Tactics, poor coach? Or rather like their footballing counterparts, are the quarter-finals about our level?
And what was wrong with Clive Woodward? Didn't he want to come back or was it RFU politics which prevented his return? Would that have been a good thing or not?
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
new zealand and south africa are on a different level to everyone else,shame ireland beat the aussies really,the final will now be very one-sided
countryman
Well-known member
- Jun 28, 2011
- 1,893
I don't think the fact that the team were out on piss ups during the tornament.
This
In amongst the name calling and general apathy (on what after all is a football forum) I am surprised that no one has thought to mention the state of club rugby in England. There are a small number of reasonable provisional clubs with a decent local following (Leicester, Gloucester and Bath) and there are a whole bunch of London spivs clubs run by a bunch of money grabbers, who seem intent on turning the sport into a circus.
I know there are big differences between rugby union and football, but when you have Saracens playing a home European cup game in South Africa and someone else (was it Harlequins) buggering off to Dubai for a home game, I am surprised they don't have the players entering the pitch in an exploding car. This is now a major global sport, only in England which has the largest pool of players in the world, it is treated as some sort of sideshow, to drinking beer and doing a few deals.
I know there are big differences between rugby union and football, but when you have Saracens playing a home European cup game in South Africa and someone else (was it Harlequins) buggering off to Dubai for a home game, I am surprised they don't have the players entering the pitch in an exploding car. This is now a major global sport, only in England which has the largest pool of players in the world, it is treated as some sort of sideshow, to drinking beer and doing a few deals.
Monsieur Wabee
New member
London spiv clubs?? Have you looked at the Premiership table?? Quins are doing more than most clubs to develop English talent, the likes of Turner Hall and Lowe have come to the fore and now they're bringing on great prospects in the pack such as Wallace and York. The problem with English Rugby is the way it's run from the top that's why a lot of grass roots clubs are currently petitioning against the powers that be.
In terms of Johnson he was one of the greatest leaders on the pitch but he has not be able to replicate that as a coach, the figure at the post match carve up bore no resemblance to the great man who lifted the cup back in 2003. He has stuck with a poor coaching set up and his policy of overlooking certain clubs for players has become more and more apparent. Time for the great man to go along with most of the English RFU.
In terms of Johnson he was one of the greatest leaders on the pitch but he has not be able to replicate that as a coach, the figure at the post match carve up bore no resemblance to the great man who lifted the cup back in 2003. He has stuck with a poor coaching set up and his policy of overlooking certain clubs for players has become more and more apparent. Time for the great man to go along with most of the English RFU.
pork pie
New member
Johnson and great just do not go together. What management or even coaching experience did he have before he was given the top job? None!
The problem with Rugby in this country is the dominance on the top clubs.
We complain about the Premiership in Football. In rugby, their Premiership (and ex premiership) clubs are the only ones who can obtain the top talent and develop them (supported by massive hand-outs) via the EPDG set-up and academy system. If kids happen to live in a part of the country assigned to Tigers or one of the other "win ugly" teams, then small, skillful backs have no chance of success. Championship and below clubs simply do not have the money or support from the RFU to develop talent. As the big Premiership clubs are now looking overseas for academy prospects, we are going to have a very smaller pool of players to choose from in future.
Johnson needs the sack, and he should be replaced by someone from the southern hemisphere, in order to inject flair back into our game. Look what Warren Gatland has given Wales!
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
You only have to look at how the Welsh have been revamped by S Hemisphere coaches. We looked 2nd class on Saturday as we have pretty well all this tournament. Ridiculously slow ball, terrible handling and totally indisciplined with the backs a shambles. Johnson should just hand in his resignation and f*** off hanging his head in shame. The off field discipline has dragged the Union team into the same sphere as the England football, never thought I'd say that. The desire also seemed to be on a par this tournament too.
One bright spot for me is that we are not gonna get mullered by the Welsh, I'm much happier to have gone down to the French.
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but here is my twopennies worth.
The RFU are going to have a review of England's performance that, at this point, simply isn't good enopugh as the RFU are more incompetent than the National team. Brian Moore makes a good point in the Telegraph:
"Johnson was appointed by Rob Andrew, then director of elite rugby, after he had twice recommended the retention of coach Brian Ashton. The RFU management board, chaired by Martyn Thomas, ignored his recommendation and told him to engage Johnson. Andrew chose not to resign and did not publicly dissociate himself with the appointment and cannot therefore eschew all responsibility for its success or failure.
The RFU currently has no CEO to oversee the overseeing of Andrew and hold him to account. The RFU management board were all recommended for removal in the RFU’s own Blackett Report and should not be there because they are only interested in clinging to power. Andrew is going to do Johnson’s review, but is partly responsible for this World Cup debacle as he has been with the squad for the entire tournament.
Root and branch reform is needed. An entirely new management board, new CEO and full time manager and head coach without the need for Andrew’s role."
I dislike Johnson's 'safety first' approach. It is the risk taking approach that has seen Wales become world beaters. Lets face it, putting on older, slower players isn't 'safe' when you are playing against the best in the World. Wilkinson, Moody, Thompson, Tindell were the best in the world 8 years ago. Pitted against today's best in the world, they fall painfully short.
Starting at the 6 nations, I would like to see young, ambitious players being blooded with 2015 in mind. Cipriani needs to be given another chance, to show us how he can do. I believe he will be back at Wasps next season. Henre Fourie needs to get back to fitness too, as he is the best Flanker we have. Also Corbisero (sp?) needs to play more, our scrum looks twice as solid with him and Cole propping.
I hear that Wilkinson threw Tuilangi a lifejacket when he jumped off that ferry. Unfortunately, he threw it three metres behind him.
The RFU are going to have a review of England's performance that, at this point, simply isn't good enopugh as the RFU are more incompetent than the National team. Brian Moore makes a good point in the Telegraph:
"Johnson was appointed by Rob Andrew, then director of elite rugby, after he had twice recommended the retention of coach Brian Ashton. The RFU management board, chaired by Martyn Thomas, ignored his recommendation and told him to engage Johnson. Andrew chose not to resign and did not publicly dissociate himself with the appointment and cannot therefore eschew all responsibility for its success or failure.
The RFU currently has no CEO to oversee the overseeing of Andrew and hold him to account. The RFU management board were all recommended for removal in the RFU’s own Blackett Report and should not be there because they are only interested in clinging to power. Andrew is going to do Johnson’s review, but is partly responsible for this World Cup debacle as he has been with the squad for the entire tournament.
Root and branch reform is needed. An entirely new management board, new CEO and full time manager and head coach without the need for Andrew’s role."
I dislike Johnson's 'safety first' approach. It is the risk taking approach that has seen Wales become world beaters. Lets face it, putting on older, slower players isn't 'safe' when you are playing against the best in the World. Wilkinson, Moody, Thompson, Tindell were the best in the world 8 years ago. Pitted against today's best in the world, they fall painfully short.
Starting at the 6 nations, I would like to see young, ambitious players being blooded with 2015 in mind. Cipriani needs to be given another chance, to show us how he can do. I believe he will be back at Wasps next season. Henre Fourie needs to get back to fitness too, as he is the best Flanker we have. Also Corbisero (sp?) needs to play more, our scrum looks twice as solid with him and Cole propping.
I hear that Wilkinson threw Tuilangi a lifejacket when he jumped off that ferry. Unfortunately, he threw it three metres behind him.
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pork pie
New member
Are you soem sort of norther monkey? Do you have a flat cap, whippet and a pidgeon loft? lol
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
Quick point of order - Wales had Steve Hansen (Kiwi) in charge at the last World Cup and were dire. So it's more about the right coach.
The recruitment process of the two countries deserves scrutiny though. After 2003, the Wales chief exec actually travelled out to Australia to conduct interviews. They offered the job to Robbie Deans but he turned it down, figuring he was in line for the All Blacks job (they instead decided to reappoint Henry) so they offered it to Gatland. Whereas England, after a much more successful tournament, decided that they didn't like Ashton and picked the first name they could come up with to replace him.
The RFU needs a complete head-to-toe clear out. Appoint a competent board (not the old boys' club there currently) and then ask them, in conjunction with a few former England players no longer involved with the RFU, to come up with a suitable suggested head honcho to be approached. Give that man a choice of set-ups (if he wants a separate performance director and coach let him have it and give him his choice of the roles - if he just wants to be head honcho let him do that) and back him for 4 years, stating that nothing matters until the next world cup (so that he has chance to introduce new players and change the style of play).
Please explain!
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
I assume because it means that final will be N Hemisphere vs S Hemisphere? Australia would have met Wales in the other Q/F if they hadn't lost to Ireland and the Irish would have faced the All Blacks. Now we have an all N Hemisphere and all S Hemisphere semi final.
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