James Wilson

[Mackenzie]

It absolutely couldn't be his form, his nerves, his inexperience, his style of play or that he's only played a handful of professional matches.
What it must be is the after effects of an illness which caused him to miss 2 games in December and he said (several times), other players said (Zamora in the Argus in January) , and the club (Hughton) said had cleared up by early January.
An illness (scrub that...it must be a virus...scrub that ...it must be glandular fever...) that the player , the club and other players and the club's expensive doctors either don't know about , either aren't saying, have certainly never mentioned in public ever or they do know about his health and have been lying about it in public for nearly 6 months.
but they would , wouldn't they ? (Why ?)
Yes it must be that ...

Just an observation but have you read Left Foot Forward by Garry Nelson? He revealed suffered from M.E. early on in his career, the fans weren't informed (quite rightly it is a private matter). I'm not saying that's the case with JW, but it does highlight that things can go on within clubs without us necessarily knowing.

 

[spring hall convert]

Absolutely convinced that his decline was health related. If he can return to us at 100%, he's a fantastic option. If not, I can't see him playing professional football for much longer.

How's Lingard got on since he left us anyway? I remember the majority of the board being convinced he was rubbish (which he clearly wasn't.)

 

[Napier's Knee]

I think it was health too but everyone who knows says no, so I must be wrong. In which case I reckon he just went into a sulk because Rashford and Lingard came through and he felt he had been farmed out

 

[chaileyjem]

Just an observation but have you read Left Foot Forward by Garry Nelson? He revealed suffered from M.E. early on in his career, the fans weren't informed (quite rightly it is a private matter). I'm not saying that's the case with JW, but it does highlight that things can go on within clubs without us necessarily knowing.

Of course and the club and the player might want to keep things (normally contractual, fitness issues) secret for many reasons. This might be the case here.
But this is very rare these days given that things leak etc.
Its just the absolute certainty by many on this thread that its certainly not his form, nerves, age, inexperience that affected his performances over the season given he's a 19/20 year old inexperienced player but it *must* be an undefined secret illness instead and Hughton (and Man Utd) were a) prepared to put up with it. b) didn't do anything about it. c) never once talked about it.

 

[Easy 10]

I think the simple fact is, loan players rarely carry the motivation to put a shift in. You'll get the odd gem, like a Teixeira or a Zamora, but 95% of the time you'll end up with a Wilson or a Gardner. They know they're just passing through, no need to bust a nut.

 

[pishhead]

Of course and the club and the player might want to keep things (normally contractual, fitness issues) secret for many reasons. This might be the case here.
But this is very rare these days given that things leak etc.
Its just the absolute certainty by many on this thread that its certainly not his form, nerves, age, inexperience that affected his performances over the season given he's a 19/20 year old inexperienced player but it *must* be an undefined secret illness instead and Hughton (and Man Utd) were a) prepared to put up with it. b) didn't do anything about it. c) never once talked about it.

How do you explain that a young lad within minutes looked out of breath and generally knackered? I know we all want to believe everything the club tells us but in some instances this won't be the case. In no way am I saying that there was an issue regarding illness but it just doesn't seem of add up.

 

[B.W.]

I think the simple fact is, loan players rarely carry the motivation to put a shift in. You'll get the odd gem, like a Teixeira or a Zamora, but 95% of the time you'll end up with a Wilson or a Gardner. They know they're just passing through, no need to bust a nut.

This... which is why we MUST always opt for perm signings whenever possible...

 

[chaileyjem]

How do you explain that a young lad within minutes looked out of breath and generally knackered?

or perhaps we should be questioning how Hughton, his medical team, didn't notice , didn't take him off the pitch or more to the point let him on in the first place.
Are they regularly in the habit of playing "knackered" , sick players over a period of 6 months who aren't fit, are out of breath "within minutes" and can't pick that up in training, on the day or during a game.
He made 25 appearances for us, starting for us 7 times since Christmas and appeared, at some point, in nearly every game of the loan period.
he also managed 5 goals despite having , according to various posters on this thread (take your pick) , having glandular fever, not being interested , lazy, not trying or too upset to play well because he was worrying about Marcus Rashford.
Again all things that Hughton and his team either didn't notice, didn't mind, do anything about or presumably were keeping secret. or perhaps it was all because Man Utd MADE US PLAY HIM cos of the loan deal.
Are they really all the more likely than er, he's an inexperienced 19/20 year old , in and out of form, not used to playing in the championship. ? More fun to believe i guess.

 

[Easy 10]

This... which is why we MUST always opt for perm signings whenever possible...

Absolutely. I think a factor in our fantastic start to last season was that week in, week out we were putting out an XI that had ZERO loan signings.

Wilson was the first loan we had this season, and whilst I was happy at his arrival, for about three-quarters of his spell he was yet another one that looked like he was just going though the motions. Why would it matter to him whether we went up or not ? He'd be going back to OT at the end of the season just hoping to fight for his place there. I won't go as far as saying that he couldn't give a monkeys, but I don't think he showed anything like the amount of passion and drive his team-mates showed this season, and there's a clear reason for that. He's not one of ours.

There is a place for long-term loans and occasionally they work out (Upson and Bridge were brilliant). But they really should be viewed as a last resort, as a stopgap, because you so rarely get the commitment from them.

 

[Billy the Fish]

or perhaps we should be questioning how Hughton, his medical team, didn't notice , didn't take him off the pitch or more to the point let him on in the first place.
Are they regularly in the habit of playing "knackered" , sick players over a period of 6 months who aren't fit, are out of breath "within minutes" and can't pick that up in training, on the day or during a game.
He made 25 appearances for us, starting for us 7 times since Christmas and appeared, at some point, in nearly every game of the loan period.
he also managed 5 goals despite having , according to various posters on this thread (take your pick) , having glandular fever, not being interested , lazy, not trying or too upset to play well because he was worrying about Marcus Rashford.
Again all things that Hughton and his team either didn't notice, didn't mind, do anything about or presumably were keeping secret. or perhaps it was all because Man Utd MADE US PLAY HIM cos of the loan deal.
Are they really all the more likely than er, he's an inexperienced 19/20 year old , in and out of form, not used to playing in the championship. ? More fun to believe i guess.

How many times was he sick on the pitch?

We've all got eyes, before the illness he looked like a different player. You don't lose a yard of pace and start blowing after 10 minutes because you're out of form or not used to playing every week.

Also, clubs regularly play players when they're not 100% fit. Perhaps Hughton thought an 80/90% fit Wilson was still of use to the squad.

 

[chaileyjem]

he was yet another one that looked like he was just going though the motions. Why would it matter to him whether we went up or not ? He'd be going back to OT at the end of the season just hoping to fight for his place there. I won't go as far as saying that he couldn't give a monkeys, but I don't think he showed anything like the amount of passion and drive his team-mates showed this season.

How come Hughton didn't notice this ? or his team mates for that matter. ?
If i was the manager or coach and i had a player who really was just "going through the motions" - why pick him ?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

We need a strikeforce that will get us to the PL and then keep us there - loans may only achieve the first half of this plan ....
Prefer to buy a top Championship striker to call our own ... but is also potential PL material

 

[Easy 10]

How come Hughton didn't notice this ? or his team mates for that matter. ?
If i was the manager or coach and i had a player who really was just "going through the motions" - why pick him ?

Well, who else was there ?

As others have said, he clearly has talent, but the fact that he ended up starting most games on the bench once Baldock was fit spoke volumes. He was here on a season-long deal, so I guess we just had to try and make the best of it. Lets see if Hughton actually makes any attempt to bring him back for next season...do you think he will ? Or will he be looking elsewhere ?

I reckon I could hazard a guess.

 

[Wardy's twin]

How come Hughton didn't notice this ? or his team mates for that matter. ?
If i was the manager or coach and i had a player who really was just "going through the motions" - why pick him ?

I don't think it was a matter of people not noticing, there might have been a number of other factors e.g. we had to play him (part of the deal with MU?) , we had few options , maybe the player was desperate to play. It would be good to get some clarity on this. I started the thread because I wanted to see opinions and I sure got them.

My personal preference is that we should take him back if offered, indeed we should be approaching MU about a deal. I would not expect him to be the main striker so third choice but the guy has the talent to change games - Charlton being a prime example , he also scored winner against Huddersfield and ran up to/into the Northstand so much for not caring. The Derby last minute goal was not the action of a disinterested player.

Lets assume he has had some viral issue ( big assumption) why would we not consider taking him on - we are all looking forward to Solly coming back and he has had two large bouts of injury. Is it because we understand that sort of injury whereas virus or indeed mental health issues are not for footballers?

Regards the questions of loan players and how they are not interested. Are people saying that Holla was more interested in playing than Sidwell? Really? Loans are part of the game and if you get the right one and right circumstances e.g. young player to develop his trade or old player to rove a point then you are on to a winner.

 

[Easy 10]

My personal preference is that we should take him back if offered, indeed we should be approaching MU about a deal. I would not expect him to be the main striker so third choice

Man U would not be looking to loan him back to us with a view to him sitting on the bench, and I hardly think Wilson would come here to be 3rd choice. The whole point of loaning out young players is so that they get the regular game-time they need to help with their development. If they're in and out of the side, then that's not condusive to either party. He's not good enough for Man U at the moment, and it turned out he wasn't really good enough for us last season either.

Regards the questions of loan players and how they are not interested. Are people saying that Holla was more interested in playing than Sidwell? Really? Loans are part of the game and if you get the right one and right circumstances e.g. young player to develop his trade or old player to rove a point then you are on to a winner.

Holla was just a poor signing that didn't work out, and we had a stack of those from that particular set of transfer windows. Its a shame we couldn't get Elvis on loan initially and we'd have dodged a pretty expensive bullet. Look, I'm not saying NEVER make loan signings - they're a necessary evil to plug gaps when needed, and can be mutually beneficial. We've done well out of them occasionally. I just believe they should be kept to an absolute bare minimum, because more often than not they're either complete duds, or they are players with talent who don't really give enough of a toss.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Look, I'm not saying NEVER make loan signings - they're a necessary evil to plug gaps when needed, and can be mutually beneficial. We've done well out of them occasionally. I just believe they should be kept to an absolute bare minimum, because more often than not they're either complete duds, or they are players with talent who don't really give enough of a toss.

Trouble with loan players is, it's not really possible to BUILD something, because at some point they go back to their parent club and you're back to square one.

 

[Pantani]

It is a no from me. Looked brilliant at times, but disappeared for long stretches of games.

Also he seems unable to read the flight of a football kicked over a long distance, I lost count of the number of times Stockdale would aim towards Wilson who would somehow end up miles underneath the ball, despite having the time and space to get to where the ball was going to land.

 

[chaileyjem]

Well, who else was there ?

As others have said, he clearly has talent, but the fact that he ended up starting most games on the bench once Baldock was fit spoke volumes. He was here on a season-long deal, so I guess we just had to try and make the best of it. Lets see if Hughton actually makes any attempt to bring him back for next season...do you think he will ? Or will he be looking elsewhere ?

I reckon I could hazard a guess.

yes. I guess he won't and i'm sure that will be for a whole bunch of sensible reasons (not a clinical enough finisher, not experienced enough, pace, consistency, age, value for money) that hes concluded from watching him in games/and in training every day but he won't be because he's ill, lazy, not trying or jealous of Marcus Rashford..

 

[Easy 10]

Trouble with loan players is, it's not really possible to BUILD something, because at some point they go back to their parent club and you're back to square one.

Exactly.
We've gone down the road of stuffing our team with loan players a couple of times, under Micky Adams Mk2 and Hyypia, and both times its almost got us relegated.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Never, no passion for the club. GOODBYE