ISIS have apparently burned the Jordanian pilot alive

[ThePompousPaladin]

maybe in your own head

its been pointed out to you time and time again

They are indeed murdering bloodthirsty twatty muslims,they are however not representative of the majority of muslims who are not bloodthirsty murdering twats

and you say buzzer is trolling.

And another that misses the point.

We all seem to agree that they are not representative.
Therefore using it as their identity seems wrong.
As it only helps them in recruiting.

 

[pastafarian]

We will have to agree to disagree about this.

There are countless of examples of similar atrocities being committed around the world, even today. Mexican drug cartels routinely behead citizens just like ISIS do. It takes more than just religion for men to do these things against other men, it requires a mindset that can only be learned through being exposed to extreme violence themselves.

well dodged and ignored again

bring in mexican cartels to deflect

last time i looked the cartels hadnt proclaimed a caliphate,

 

[wellquickwoody]

Right, so because they are not representative of muslims, we shouldn't identify them as such.
Does this not follow?

Talking as much sxxt as earlier, and I was accused of wordplay! You are on the back foot, do please carry on to your ultimate demise, be a bit like ISIS, you keep pulling the dogs tail you get bitten ( for ISIS read 'obliterated off the planet').

 

[Goldstone1976]

Could I remind folk that:

1) trolling isn't acceptable on NSC
2) the best way to stop a troll is to simply not feed it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I disagree. I believe that this kind of brutal uprising would have happened regardless of Islam given the circumstances - just like it has all over the world throughout history. It is a result of decades and more of oppression, violence and war.

More of a result of people like you sxxt stirring.

 

[symyjym]

Errgh, they'd have us all living in the stone age...

Or Jihadi John can negotiate with western contracts to build their empire.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I like to think I am unequivocal with my opinions. I only ever advocate peace - and my understanding is that violence breeds violence. Islam has proven that it can exist in peace and prosperity - so if Islam is not directly responsible for this violence, we need to analyse the circumstances which violence occurs in Muslim nations. I am confident that ISIS, Boko Haram, etc is a result of decades of violence, oppression and war in the Middle East and Nigeria respectively.

It is not excusing their actions, which are obviously despicable. However I think it's important to take a sociological perspective. I believe any child can grow up to be "evil" if he is raised in an evil environment.

More excuses from the black flag apologist.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Talking as much sxxt as earlier, and I was accused of wordplay! You are on the back foot, do please carry on to your ultimate demise, be a bit like ISIS, you keep pulling the dogs tail you get bitten ( for ISIS read 'obliterated off the planet').

Hehe! You're the dog i take it?

Backfoot? Only in as far i'm struggling to make myself understood to a few on here, but we're all 'different' so that's not surprising.

So lets try another way with you, see if you can get it.

This is not currently about religion, as most here agree, however by continually saying it is about religion, we're gonna help make it go that way.

Get it yet?

 

[clungemeister]

I like to think I am unequivocal with my opinions. I only ever advocate peace - and my understanding is that violence breeds violence. Islam has proven that it can exist in peace and prosperity - so if Islam is not directly responsible for this violence, we need to analyse the circumstances which violence occurs in Muslim nations. I am confident that ISIS, Boko Haram, etc is a result of decades of violence, oppression and war in the Middle East and Nigeria respectively.

It is not excusing their actions, which are obviously despicable. However I think it's important to take a sociological perspective. I believe any child can grow up to be "evil" if he is raised in an evil environment.

so you would attribute the Bali bombing to what ...?? Exactly....

 

[Soulman]

I like to think I am unequivocal with my opinions. I only ever advocate peace - and my understanding is that violence breeds violence. Islam has proven that it can exist in peace and prosperity - so if Islam is not directly responsible for this violence, we need to analyse the circumstances which violence occurs in Muslim nations. I am confident that ISIS, Boko Haram, etc is a result of decades of violence, oppression and war in the Middle East and Nigeria respectively.

It is not excusing their actions, which are obviously despicable. However I think it's important to take a sociological perspective. I believe any child can grow up to be "evil" if he is raised in an evil environment.

Ok, i'll run with that and take your point about " violence occurs in Muslim nations.", so why is the violence spilling over to Sweden, France, Denmark, UK, Belgium etc etc, where Muslims are in non "violent" countries and many not involved with attacking countries in the Middle East, and where the majority of followers have been born in and not set foot in the countries that have experienced " decades of violence, oppression and war".

 

[symyjym]

I think we have to differentiate between believer and adherent. There are many religions (again a catch all term that doesn't truly reflect the range of systems societies subscribe to) that do not necessarily focus on a rigid value system with punishments for those that veer from that. We are currently still viewing the world from an abrahamic belief system, that a significant proportion of the world doesn't adhere to.

They all complicate each other. To choose a faith you have to study all of them and life is not long enough to do this. Just being born into it, is not good enough.

 

[Soulman]

It's spilling all over the world, like [MENTION=30737]clungemeister[/MENTION] mentioned above... but it's not a coincidence that It could be as simple as Muslims wanting revenge for Western intervention.

Ok, but as i posted, many of these European countries were not involved in "Western intervention", and they have welcomed the population involved, and what about the trouble in Southern Thailand and Bali as a couple of examples.

 

[Soulman]

I don't know - all I know that since 2001 global Jihadi terrorism has increased exponentially. The reasons for this are of course complex and debatable, I don't have the answers myself.

Ok, i just challenged your post
Quote
"I like to think I am unequivocal with my opinions. I only ever advocate peace - and my understanding is that violence breeds violence. Islam has proven that it can exist in peace and prosperity - so if Islam is not directly responsible for this violence, we need to analyse the circumstances which violence occurs in Muslim nations. I am confident that ISIS, Boko Haram, etc is a result of decades of violence, oppression and war in the Middle East and Nigeria respectively.

It is not excusing their actions, which are obviously despicable. However I think it's important to take a sociological perspective. I believe any child can grow up to be "evil" if he is raised in an evil environment."

 

[The Spanish]

Thats almost certainly true.
My point was that we could contribute (as a society) to swelling their numbers, thereby causing more killings.

There are plenty of societies or groups who you could blame for contributing to swelling the numbers of their oppressors or aggressors against, if you take that tack. A tactic widely used in Central Europe in the thirties.

Often generally blameless, if truth be told. This current narrative that we are are responsible for the aggression of others is at very best unhealthy. At worst it is tacit agreement with those who seek to divide us.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

There are plenty of societies or groups who you could blame for contributing to swelling the numbers of their oppressors or aggressors against, if you take that tack.

Often generally blameless, if truth be told. This current narrative that we are are responsible for the aggression of others is at very best unhealthy. At worst it is tacit agreement with those who seek to divide us.

Wooa, we are not responsible for the violence (not said that), we may have had some part in setting the scene, however we owe it to ourselves and those abroad to do everything in our power to not make this situation any worse, surely?

I think we're all agreed that these guys are scum, it's just how best to avoid making the situation any worse.

I'd be interested to know how you think it's unhealthy?

 

[pastafarian]

Islam has proven that it can exist in peace and prosperity - so if Islam is not directly responsible for this violence,

it is directly responsible you are just ignoring it.You cant have a caliphate without islam,this is a fact you refuse to address.

saying islam is responsible is not the same as tarnishing all muslims with the same brush,never has and never will be,even though you cannot function without your self inspired belief this is what people are saying

 

[The Spanish]

Wooa, we are not responsible for the violence (not said that), we may have had some part in setting the scene, however we owe it to ourselves and those abroad to do everything in our power to not make this situation any worse, surely?

I think we're all agreed that these guys are scum, it's just how best to avoid making the situation any worse.

I'd be interested to know how you think it's unhealthy?

We are responsible for setting up the gulf region free from ottoman oppression and giving them financial independence, to our detriment. how they view their responsibilities to their liberators from that is up to them. We owe nothing.

 

[The Spanish]

Wooa, we are not responsible for the violence (not said that), we may have had some part in setting the scene, however we owe it to ourselves and those abroad to do everything in our power to not make this situation any worse, surely?

I think we're all agreed that these guys are scum, it's just how best to avoid making the situation any worse.

I'd be interested to know how you think it's unhealthy?

You ever worked in the gulf mate?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

You ever worked in the gulf mate?

Why?

 

[The Spanish]

Why?

Why because people who have generally have a better understanding of the current dynamic than most westerners. It's apparent on here that people often view it as an area still hide bound by western influence and domination, rather than a region that is disproportionately financially and socially influential.

Look at the debates about Qatar winning the World Cup. I worked in Qatar a lot over the years, for some it comes at a surprise they can exercise such power. For me, not so much. They are the modern day Victorians, and the Victorians not only dominated financially but socially and religiously too.