[Albion] Is Mr Potter, Chris Hughton II...

[JBizzle]

I believe it's been mentioned at some point on NSC that Murray's contract came to an end. The club offered him a new one. He chose a better offer.

Yep, that's right, but I thought he turned it down because Poyet made it clear that their valuations didn't match up? Either way, the bigger sin was spending £3m on CMS and then refusing to acknowledge that he played a different way to Murray

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Wolves have a quite brilliant handful of strikers -- Jimenez, Podence, Neto, Hwang especially -- and they also have two CMs that can score from the edge of the box. They're looking very good this season. They've just got a better squad than us. We need to up our number of forwards/attacking players -- one very high quality, perhaps even two to go with Undav (especially considering we may well lose at least one). Our midfielders need to start chipping in with goals, as Neves and Moutinho do.

Is this the quite brilliant attacking Wolves who have scored precisely 2 goals more then us?

The grass, apparently is always greener!

 

[Stat Brother]

Is this the quite brilliant attacking Wolves who have scored precisely 2 goals more then us?

The grass, apparently is always greener!

But won twice as many games.

 

[Weststander]

Allegedly salary was the same or minimal increase. I actually have a bit of insight here - but partly down to Ken Brown- budgets were set in 2 pots 'Transfer Fees' 'Wages' and the 2 could not move around. We probably could have met Murrays demands by taking some out of the transfer fee pot and allocating it into wages / signing on fee, but wouldn't budge. Perhaps if Poyet had really pushed it might have happened but he didn't

The two pots argument was put forward by Poyet to the Argus, in a piece defending himself about Muzza's departure, about 18 months afterwards.

Vicente, Buckley, CMS and Hoskins were brought in on wages dwarfing several fold Muzza's last salary. Poyet simply wouldn't award a large pay rise to a personality asking for it.

[Poyet held much influence then, reined in when PB joined in June 2012].

We'll never find out the truth from TB, as he doesn't soundbite via the Argus on confidential stuff.

 

[Badger Boy]

But won twice as many games.

Winning is besides the point!

This thread has taken quite a remarkable turn. It's all old ground, of course, and the same opinions are being expressed like Groundhog Day - but it's nice that Gus is getting a mention again. What wonderful times they were. Charlton and Peterborough in back to back weeks - incredible. ****ing Brilliant, in fact.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I read analysis about the Wolves defence a while back. Every great results seems to involve a constant back 3 of Kilman-Coady-Saiss. I think Coady's an outstanding top flight CB and organiser. Giving them a great bedrock, for everyone else in front of them to perform.

Lage simply sticks to a back 3 in every game, giving the goalie and the back 3 certainty. Just 23 goals conceded is outstanding.

I suppose our perfect back 3 would be Veltman-Webster-Dunk. Assuming?? that Potter would stick to that, he's been unlucky with injuries.

And the club selling Burn out from under him who was Mr Versatile across any of the defensive positions. Let's not forget Wolves spent £34m on Jiminez, £36m Silva, £29m Semedo, £19m Otto, £18m Traore, £18m Podence etc.

 

[Machiavelli]

I read analysis about the Wolves defence a while back. Every great results seems to involve a constant back 3 of Kilman-Coady-Saiss. I think Coady's an outstanding top flight CB and organiser. Giving them a great bedrock, for everyone else in front of them to perform.

Lage simply sticks to a back 3 in every game, giving the goalie and the back 3 certainty. Just 23 goals conceded is outstanding.

I suppose our perfect back 3 would be Veltman-Webster-Dunk. Assuming?? that Potter would stick to that, he's been unlucky with injuries.

It doesn't really need saying but, in contrast to Lage, there is flexibility rather than rigidity in GP's formations, both within and between games. I can see why, but most better teams have far more rigidity.
Although it was more your back 3 that prompted the response. Couldn't agree more (although Dunk central, Webster on left) -- it gives us great solidity, and options in building up the attack. The benefit of this is also that you also get to play Lamptey at RWB which, for me, is comfortably his best position, as it enables his key qualities to shine. Cucurella is equally adept at LWB as at LB too.
And on Wolves, I mentioned their more attacking players, but you're right to highlight their back 3 (could mention Sa too, who has been excellent). They rarely concede and if you add in the goal threat that I mentioned, then it's a great combination, and player-wise they're far stronger than us. When they played us, and we were suffering with injuries, CV and suspension, we had few options and, of course, played well, got picked off just before half time, and then they nullified what we had to offer thereafter. Even in the first half, I can remember seeing their shape from the WSU and, when they had the ball in our half, they still had 7 outfield players in their own half.

 

[Machiavelli]

Is this the quite brilliant attacking Wolves who have scored precisely 2 goals more then us?

The grass, apparently is always greener!

From very, very limited opportunities. They'll never spank six past anyone but, then again, you don't need to when you've kept a clean sheet. See ^ to supplement my prior point.
All I'm saying is that they've got a better squad than we have. Are you saying that the grass isn't greener in the case of their squad?

 

[Weststander]

And the club selling Burn out from under him who was Mr Versatile across any of the defensive positions. Let's not forget Wolves spent £34m on Jiminez, £36m Silva, £29m Semedo, £19m Otto, £18m Traore, £18m Podence etc.

Plus the wages required for top internationals Moutinho and Sa.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

From very, very limited opportunities. They'll never spank six past anyone but, then again, you don't need to when you've kept a clean sheet. See ^ to supplement my prior point.
All I'm saying is that they've got a better squad than we have. Are you saying that the grass isn't greener in the case of their squad?

That wasn't my point, I'm sure I could hanker after players from every other Premier League club, my point was your fawning over their brilliant attack, when clearly it's not quite so in terms of number of goals scored compared to ours!

 

[Weststander]

It doesn't really need saying but, in contrast to Lage, there is flexibility rather than rigidity in GP's formations, both within and between games. I can see why, but most better teams have far more rigidity.
Although it was more your back 3 that prompted the response. Couldn't agree more (although Dunk central, Webster on left) -- it gives us great solidity, and options in building up the attack. The benefit of this is also that you also get to play Lamptey at RWB which, for me, is comfortably his best position, as it enables his key qualities to shine. Cucurella is equally adept at LWB as at LB too.
And on Wolves, I mentioned their more attacking players, but you're right to highlight their back 3 (could mention Sa too, who has been excellent). They rarely concede and if you add in the goal threat that I mentioned, then it's a great combination, and player-wise they're far stronger than us. When they played us, and we were suffering with injuries, CV and suspension, we had few options and, of course, played well, got picked off just before half time, and then they nullified what we had to offer thereafter. Even in the first half, I can remember seeing their shape from the WSU and, when they had the ball in our half, they still had 7 outfield players in their own half.

My theory as a punter who never played the game (post school), is that a settled defence in terms of personnel and formation is fine and is indeed preferable. No shame in that.

Look at Liverpool's implode mid last season without VVD, Gomez and Matip, at the same time the brilliant DM Fabinho often also missing.

I don't think switching the characters around if by choice is a good thing.

Yeah, Wolves are set up perfectly for the counter under both Nuno and Lage. Sound at the back, an array of different talents in front, a good bench and pace!

I know we're on a journey with GP, we get to learn with him, inherently he's made blunders in that learning curve. I'd love to see what his defensive ideas are without injured players, I would also love to see us for once mug teams on the counter home and away.

 

[Machiavelli]

My theory as a punter who never played the game (post school), is that a settled defence in terms of personnel and formation is fine and is indeed preferable. No shame in that.

Look at Liverpool's implode mid last season without VVD, Gomez and Matip, at the same time the brilliant DM Fabinho often also missing.

I don't think switching the characters around if by choice is a good thing.

Yeah, Wolves are set up perfectly for the counter under both Nuno and Lage. Sound at the back, an array of different talents in front, a good bench and pace!

I know we're on a journey with GP, we get to learn with him, inherently he's made blunders in that learning curve. I'd love to see what his defensive ideas are without injured players, I would also love to see us for once mug teams on the counter home and away.

Agree with all this.

 

[Machiavelli]

That wasn't my point, I'm sure I could hanker after players from every other Premier League club, my point was your fawning over their brilliant attack, when clearly it's not quite so in terms of number of goals scored compared to ours!

And, as already pointed out, twice as many wins, and plenty more points.
And, for context, this thread is about GP/CH, and comparing squads versus those we're up against in the PL is entirely relevant to how to frame managers' achievements. [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] has already informed us how much Wolves have spent on many of those forward players (including c£35m on an attacker I didn't even mention).
So, no, I'd rather not support Wolves. I'd also rather not have Lage over Potter. I do think they've got better players than we have, and said as much. That's all.

 

[Stat Brother]

Winning is besides the point!

This thread has taken quite a remarkable turn. It's all old ground, of course, and the same opinions are being expressed like Groundhog Day - but it's nice that Gus is getting a mention again. What wonderful times they were. Charlton and Peterborough in back to back weeks - incredible. ****ing Brilliant, in fact.

I must admit I too was surprised by the Ghost of Gus.

There's missing the point of the thread - and then there's that.

 

[Justice]

Five years on Dunk, Duffey, March & Gross high Chris

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

I must admit I too was surprised by the Ghost of Gus.

There's missing the point of the thread - and then there's that.

Remember the crowd singing at our £100m+ side "we're ****ing brilliant" after our 7th win of the season against Watford.

****ing hell.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Stat Brother]

Remember the crowd singing at our £100m+ side "we're ****ing brilliant" after our 7th win of the season against Watford.

****ing hell.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Thanks to Junior being a tw@t, last night i was able to catch up on all my doom-mongering which turned out to be precedent.
Admittedly I honestly didn't see the football being this bad coming.

There were times, under Hughton, when I really didn't want to go because I (we all) knew exactly what was going to happen.

I didn't want to go, last night, for exactly the same reason.

Got dragged along (kicking and screaming) at the last minute and Kane's miss aside, regretted every second because I (we all - [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] even wrote a minute perfect script) knew what was going to happen.


The reason for this thread, which inexplicably to me, caused some posters to be quite hostile was to ask the question:-

'is this it for EPL Albion?'
'irrepective of who's at the helm and how they approach football management, is it always going to be like this?'

As every game passes for me at least 'Potter/Hughton 2 sides of the same coin?' becomes ever more relevant.
Unlike dragging Poyet, Adams, Mullery et al in the debate.

It's almost as if they are just a handy way to deflect from the realities of the here and now.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Thanks to Junior being a tw@t, last night i was able to catch up on all my doom-mongering which turned out to be precedent.
Admittedly I honestly didn't see the football being this bad coming.

There were times, under Hughton, when I really didn't want to go because I (we all) knew exactly what was going to happen.

I didn't want to go, last night, for exactly the same reason.

Got dragged along (kicking and screaming) at the last minute and Kane's miss aside, regretted every second because I (we all - [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] even wrote a minute perfect script) knew what was going to happen.


The reason for this thread, which inexplicably to me, caused some posters to be quite hostile was to ask the question:-

'is this it for EPL Albion?'
'irrepective of who's at the helm and how they approach football management, is it always going to be like this?'

As every game passes for me at least it becomes ever more relevant.

Unlike dragging Poyet, Adams, Mullery et al in the debate.
It's almost as if they are just a handy way to deflect from the realities of the here and now.

Last 3 or 4 transfer windows should answer that question really. Unless we up the ante and realise you have to continually invest, I fear our current approach is...this is it. My Mum could tell you we need goals, last 4 windows we've not added any goals.

I don't mean Tony needs to bankrupt himself, take Southampton, last 4 windows they've made a transfer profit of about £5m, but equally Southampton haven't been significantly better than us, they're around us most seasons. Their form just ended with a crashing 3 defeats - against 3 teams us and them would expect to get something from. You sell White for £50m in the summer, then don't have anything to spend in Jan and sell arguably our best defender. It's inexplicable. We sold £63m out of our defence. It's like putting in a planning application for extra seats, that everyone can see on the portal as a public record, get planning permission, then deny it was ever an option. What the hell is going on!?

6 straight defeats and we're still 3 points from 9th, 11 points above 18th. This is it Stat! We could beat Norwich and bounce back up, get a bit of belief back, scrap a few draws, pull a further win or 2 out of the bag and finish 45+ pts 13th or higher. That is what a decent midtable PL season looks like. Happy Days.

 

[Giraffe]

It could be argued Potter = Hughton plus Bissouma

Since Bissouma went missing results have been very Hughton.

 

[The Fits]

Although we did sign players in January, for more than we sold Burn. So we have actually built some seats, they’re just in someone else’s ground.