Indonesia to go ahead with execution of 6 "convicted " drug smugglers within 24 hrs.

[Juror#13]

If they want to assuage their outrage then they'll have to support capital punishment in Australian Courts so that the same sentence can be executed (sic). What's source for the goose is source for the gander. Did having a custodial system make Man Haron Monis more motivated to attack the Lindt Cafe? Would the death penalty have dissuaded him (assuming he had intended to give himself up)? It might have, in which case innocent lives might have been saved.

Whether it's right or wrong is a different issue. This is about justice. Indonesia is a Muslim Country, those committing crimes there must accept that their Indonesian Courts apply Muslim standards of justice - not necessarily ours. Those Muslim standards allow (for example) death by Stoning, or beheading, in other Muslim Countries.

If you commit certain crimes in the USA, or China, execution might well be a consequence. Justice is seen to be done.

It seems Indonesia has double standards when it comes to the death penalty.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/indonesias-execution-double-standard-explained/6225848

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/16/bali-nine-indonesia-has-death-penalty-double-standard-says-brother-of-spared-maid

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I'm against the death penalty wherever. I don't trust the state to run a sweet shop properly, let alone anything more important.

You trust it with your life, whether it's when you use the NHS (on the operating table), it's fire service, it's school (insofar as giving you life skills, like telling you not to drink poisonous chemicals or food, teaching you how to swim) or it's transportation network (Air Traffic Control, Road integrity or the standards it demands of drivers to be competent).

For example, we can thank the state that we have a police force, driving instructors, and a Highways Agency. Road deaths would be considerably worse than they are without any of these three.

We can thank the state that we have a safe electricity network, and our appliances are safe to use, tested, earthed, and not going to burn our house down when we plug them in. The state imposes standards, regulations and laws to make this so. The same applies with the cars we drive (MOT's), the chemicals we are allowed to store, the distribution of weapons and ammunition - the list goes on and on. Gas installation has to be 'Gas Safe', shops have to comply with the sale of goods act, employers must comply with the Health and Safety at Work Act, we expect or Judiciary to be fair and impartial, our food to not contain Horse meat (a crass example but just one of many), we expect to have certain rights of return and refund for faulty goods..........

The state makes no claim to being the arbiter of right or wrong, nor to infallability, but if we all 'subscribe' to it's legitimacy, then we are collectively responsible for it, good or bad.

 

[peterward]

I dont agree with the death penalty generally but if that is the law of the land you are in you know what to expect if you commit the crime.

This. Was in Bali in 1994 and remember as you walked through airport there was a plaque with a rope noose hanging from it in those days, saying drug smuggling is capital crime punishable by the death penalty.

This is what u get on arrival now!

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Haha for all them people saying 'respect the laws of the land' I'm sure you had the same reaction when people are killed by the state in Arab nations for things we consider petty, or those who Recieve lashes for things like insulting Islam or selling alcohol (1000 lashes). That doesn't even begin to address the fact there's a chance at least one of these people could be innocent, or maybe forced to do it by drug smuggling gangs who give you the 'Plato o plumo' option. So much more to this than meets the eye, you can't just dismiss it with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time'.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

It seems Indonesia has double standards when it comes to the death penalty.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/indonesias-execution-double-standard-explained/6225848

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/16/bali-nine-indonesia-has-death-penalty-double-standard-says-brother-of-spared-maid

No, Indonesia accepts the death penalty (there is no arguement about that) for crimes committed, it accepts that it can ask for the death sentence to be commuted, but that commutation is NOT within it's power to grant.

Likewise, Australia MUST accept that it can ask for clemency but has no legitimate expectation that it should (or would) be granted. Only Indonesia can choose to decide, for good or ill.

No double standards here, just an example of Indonesia following 'due process'.

In the UK we hanged people for murder. In Indonesia it's Drug Smuggling. The law is different in different Countries and that's the way the world works.

 

[Juror#13]

In 17 minutes they'll be strapped to planks and shot and if they haven't died in 7 minutes then they're shot point blank range in the head. I'm against the death penalty.

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[Triggaaar]

If that's their law then respect it.

What if the law was that people should have their hands cut of if they steal so much as a loaf of bread, I have to respect that too do I? Why should I respect it, it's a bad law?

 

[The Wizard]

I dont agree with the death penalty generally but if that is the law of the land you are in you know what to expect if you commit the crime.

To a degree but this seems quite a barbaric way of dealing with law breakers..

 

[Frampler]

I'm very much against the death penalty (most lawyers I know are). You would have to be a complete idiot to smuggle drugs into Indonesia, but I don't think idiocy, or anything else, should be a capital offence.

The legal system there is corrupt as hell, but since the guys in this case have all confessed to smuggling, that's a moot point.

What bothers me particularly is that this is a political spectacle. They've been on death row for ages and the previous Government had operated a moratorium on the death penalty, but the new administration is sending them to the firing squad as a means of showing it is dealing with a 'drug emergency' (otherwise known as the reality that a significant chunk of the population wants to take drugs) and won't be pushed around by foreign countries. Quite how the execution of men who have been behind bars for a decade contributes to addressing the present day prevalence of drugs is beyond me.

 

[Hillian1]

What if the law was that people should have their hands cut of if they steal so much as a loaf of bread, I have to respect that too do I? Why should I respect it, it's a bad law?

Don't steal a loaf of bread would be my advice.

You could of course ignore this advice.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is abhorrent and effectively state sanctioned murder.

The way Indonesia do it makes it even worse. Look at how they've treated the two Australians (who seem to get worse treatment than the rest). They dragged them across Indonesia with a ridiculous show of military force. Officials took photos of themselves standing next to them and smiling on the plane.

Today, they threatened not to let them have a spiritual advisor with them at the end, which is their right under Indonesian law (although they now seem to have relented on that) and left their family to face a media scrum while on their way to meet them for the last time.

Whatever you might think about the death penalty (and I'm strongly against it), surely you must be appalled at the way they and their families have been treated. It is one thing to kill them but you can at least treat them with dignity.

I hope Australia (and the other countries involved) send a powerful message to Indonesia that this is unacceptable and force them to reconsider their ludicrous attitude. The two Australians have done so much good since being in prison and seem fully reformed. Killing them is pointless!

 

[Triggaaar]

Hillian1 stole my loaf of bread. Not allegedly or anything, I saw him do it.

 

[daveinprague]

Not sure why people are now arguing that the method of execution is brutal. Its been accepted in Utah. Execution by any method is going to be fairly brutal. I really dont agree with the death penalty, but anybody who smuggles heroin into Indonesia knows what the implications are. Theres probably been plenty of executions in Indonesia over the last couple of years.
From Wiki 'In January 2015 six people (among them one Dutchman, one Brazilian, one Vietnamese, one Malawian and Nigerian) were shot for drug-related crimes' I think the fact that the two of the convicted are Australians is what is making the 'story'.

 

[sir albion]

Many on here will see it as horrific....To them it's normal and that's about the size of it.

If that's the law there then what's to moan about as its their country and their punishments end of

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Not sure why people are now arguing that the method of execution is brutal. Its been accepted in Utah. I really dont agree with the death penalty, but anybody who smuggles heroin into Indonesia knows what the implications are. Theres probably been plenty of executions in Indonesia over the last couple of years. I think the fact that the two of the convicted are Australians is what is making the 'story'.

Actually there hasn't. They had a virtual moratorium on the death penalty until this year.

Also, I didn't realise Utah took people out into a clearing and shot them (having dragged them halfway across the country because Bali doesn't want it's reputation tainted by the executions). If ever there was hypocrisy, you'll see it there.

Don't get me wrong I am anti the death penalty in USA and any other country too. This does get more debate but there was an outcry when six others were killed by Indonesia earlier in the year.

 

[daveinprague]

yeah I remember the Dutch one. Whether they are executed in a prison yard or a clearing, not sure it matters much. Its sad, its really, really sad for the families. Indonesian goverrnmment is determined as they seem to think there is an epidemic that is claiming 30 lives a day. Think the story will be over by the time i wake up in the morning.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

yeah I remember the Dutch one. Whether they are executed in a prison yard or a clearing, not sure it matters much. Its sad, its really, really sad for the families. Indonesian goverrnmment is determined as they seem to think there is an epidemic that is claiming 30 lives a day. Think the story will be over by the time i wake up in the morning.

I really doubt it. Out of interest, while you are obviously in favour of the death penalty, are you okay with the way Indonesia have treated them all? It seems to me, even if you're going to execute them (and we can agree to disagree on that), that they deserve to be treated with a bit of dignity. Yet, what's happened to them and their families is shocking from my point of view. I really think this could run and run (especially bearing in mind one of the people left on death row in Indonesia is British).

The point I really don't understand is that Chan and Sukumaran have done so much good since being convicted. They've setup classes and provided support for prisoners at their original prison, including helping prisoners who are on drugs to get over their habit. Nobody is denying they did something very wrong and stupid but I think it's a real waste of human live. They're not the same people who committed those offences.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If that's the law there then what's to moan about as its their country and their punishments end of

Are you suggesting that 'we' shouldn't make countries that still have the death penalty aware of what a backward, pointless and barbaric act it is just because it is their country and their law ?

The French have warned of consequences if their citizen is shot - hopefully those consequences will be strong. I'd like to see the withdrawl of all aid to countries that have the death penalty. The problem we have the dimwit red necks of the USA still murdering their prisoners so any action by the rest oc the world is fairly pointless.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

yeah I remember the Dutch one. Whether they are executed in a prison yard or a clearing, not sure it matters much. Its sad, its really, really sad for the families. Indonesian goverrnmment is determined as they seem to think there is an epidemic that is claiming 30 lives a day. Think the story will be over by the time i wake up in the morning.

30 lives a day? Most people don't take drugs because they want to die - they just want to get high and die by accident, usually because of dirty drugs. If the government regulated the drugs and made them pure, death rates would drop significantly. Yes, there would be ODs, but that would be the odd accidental case, not the norm.

Making an example of a handful of small time drug smugglers won't change a single thing. The only thing that will be real change are a complete re-think on how we approach drugs, and drug policy.

 

[daveinprague]

I really doubt it. Out of interest, while you are obviously in favour of the death penalty, are you okay with the way Indonesia have treated them all? It seems to me, even if you're going to execute them (and we can agree to disagree on that), that they deserve to be treated with a bit of dignity. Yet, what's happened to them and their families is shocking from my point of view. I really think this could run and run (especially bearing in mind one of the people left on death row in Indonesia is British).

The point I really don't understand is that Chan and Sukumaran have done so much good since being convicted. They've setup classes and provided support for prisoners at their original prison, including helping prisoners who are on drugs to get over their habit. Nobody is denying they did something very wrong and stupid but I think it's a real waste of human live. They're not the same people who committed those offences.

No, im totally opposed the death penalty. I believe we could have murdered the Guildford four, the Birmingham six, as well as other well documented **** ups..
But what a another country does, and laws it imposes, on the other side of the world isnt really anything say anything about really. As for being rehabilitated. not sure it works like that anywhere in the world where there is a death penalty.