Immigration soaring

[clapham_gull]

As I posted on another thread yesterday

“…most people that voted UKIP or for Brexit don’t even understand that most of our immigration comes from outside the EU and is still rising under the Tories:

1. The net migration figure to the UK for 2022 has been revised upwards to 745,000
2. In May, figure for 2022 was given as 606,000 - a record at the time - and that was today revised up by 139,000
3. At the same time, new figures for the 12 months until June 2023 show net migration to the UK of 672,000
4. The figures show the number people of arriving in the UK, versus the number leaving
5. Immigration in the 12 months to June 2023 was 1.2m - emigration was 508,000
6. The vast majority of immigration was from non-EU countries - 968,000”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-67507045

But very soon after Brexit there was a quick liberalisation of immigration rules. Almost overnight.

Wasn't particularly picked up by the "winners", still drunk on the thought that they "gained control" of "their borders". They hadn't but the Home Office had and opened up the gates to try and cover up the shit storm of the instant Labour shortage they had created.

Anyone who voted for Brexit and believes it may take decades to glean the benefits are correct. In the short term expect increased migration from non EU countries whilst the economy adapts.

You voted for it. Own it.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes, but you can't criticize the Tories unless you can spell out what Labour would do.

Apparently.

What utter wank.

You can't criticize Hitler unless you can explain what the Jews would do.

FFS.

There are more problems than solutions in this world. It’s very easy to throw your hands up in horror at a policy or a perceived mishandling of a situation. But if you do that, expect to be asked how you, or your party, might deal with it better. It’s not a trick question, or not when asked by me anyway. I’m genuinely interested. I think the 'small boats' issue and illegal immigration in general is one of the toughest problems we face. (I’ve no problem whatever with legal immigration — I was an economic migrant myself for many years.) I just don’t think there is a good, sustainable answer to that question. There was at one time an agreement that EU countries could return asylum seekers to the country they first arrived in, or registered in. It was hailed as a panacea but it’s never worked, mainly because Italy and Greece would be overwhelmed, and basically refused to cooperate. So even if we reinstated that agreement somehow, I can’t see it working. In any case, all one is doing there is shunting the problem somewhere else. It may be too late now but the only option I see is a coordinated effort to significantly increase overseas aid to try to create the infrastructure and society in certain countries that might incentivise people to stay. But even there I can see loads of potential flaws, not least of all that it would take many years to accomplish.

Over to you.

 

[Charlie Livesey]

Correct me if I am wrong, aren`t the majority of migrants either foreign students here to study or professionals coming to work for the NHS or other organisations ? Many members of the public appear to believe they all arrive on small boats.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Correct me if I am wrong, aren`t the majority of migrants either foreign students here to study or professionals coming to work for the NHS or other organisations ? Many members of the public appear to believe they all arrive on small boats.

That’s correct, yes.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are more problems than solutions in this world. It’s very easy to throw your hands up in horror at a policy or a perceived mishandling of a situation. But if you do that, expect to be asked how you, or your party, might deal with it better. It’s not a trick question, or not when asked by me anyway. I’m genuinely interested. I think the 'small boats' issue and illegal immigration in general is one of the toughest problems we face. (I’ve no problem whatever with legal immigration — I was an economic migrant myself for many years.) I just don’t think there is a good, sustainable answer to that question. There was at one time an agreement that EU countries could return asylum seekers to the country they first arrived in, or registered in. It was hailed as a panacea but it’s never worked, mainly because Italy and Greece would be overwhelmed, and basically refused to cooperate. So even if we reinstated that agreement somehow, I can’t see it working. In any case, all one is doing there is shunting the problem somewhere else. It may be too late now but the only option I see is a coordinated effort to significantly increase overseas aid to try to create the infrastructure and society in certain countries that might incentivise people to stay. But even there I can see loads of potential flaws, not least of all that it would take many years to accomplish.

Over to you.

So am I. But the person who originally posed the question is not interested. It was pure whataboutery.

The sensible answer to your genuine question is that we will have to wait and see. My expectation, for what it's worth, is that Labour will struggle, but I have some expectation also that they will try to deal with this and other issues in a measured way, not with silly gimmicks (like Rwanda, one step away from Narnia), and nothing more to their agenda than to stoke 'culture wars' and racism in pursuit of the fear and anger voters.

 

[clapham_gull]

Correct me if I am wrong, aren`t the majority of migrants either foreign students here to study or professionals coming to work for the NHS or other organisations ? Many members of the public appear to believe they all arrive on small boats.

I also think many thought that immigration from places like India and Africa would decrease after Brexit because the numbers were controlled by the EU.

A very clever Indian neighbour of mine voted for Brexit because he knew it would in theory allow for easier immigration from India.

.. and he told me that before the vote.

I'm sorry I'm finding this all hilarious.

The other diamond being that Britain will "start making/growing things again" whilst "our imports will be cheaper from outside the EU".

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Correct me if I am wrong, aren`t the majority of migrants either foreign students here to study or professionals coming to work for the NHS or other organisations ? Many members of the public appear to believe they all arrive on small boats.

No, sadly. The Tories put a stop to most of that. Hence the NHS staff shortages.

However, Rees Mogg today was proposing we should get tougher on immigration by blocking the seasonal workers, like those who deal with most of the fruit picking here in Kent. In order to get the fruit picked he seems to think that impoverishing further the white working class will shift the balance in favour of a compliant indigenous casual workforce. Low paid work will suddenly appear attractive to the downtrodden working class. Rule Britannia!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I also think many thought that immigration from places like India and Africa would decrease after Brexit because the numbers were controlled by the EU.

A very clever Indian neighbour of mine voted for Brexit because he knew it would in theory allow for easier immigration from India.

.. and he told me that before the vote.

I'm sorry I'm finding this all hilarious.

The other diamond being that Britain will "start making/growing things again" whilst "our imports will be cheaper from outside the EU".

Nothing more appealing to the slightly worried 'newcomer' than the prospect of the ladder being kicked away from the budding competition. And in the meantime the slightly worried 'newcomer' becomes a useful idiot, complicit in the Tory game.

I am looking forward to a new law that makes it legal for me to rob my next door neighbour if they stay away from their property for more than 24 hours. Fair's fair. Innit.

In seriousness, despite the jettisoning of the loathsome Braverman, the Tories remain disgusting.

Maybe 'call me Lord Dave' can make them nice again?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"Suella Braverman has said the pressure on public services from migration is "unsustainable", after figures estimated record levels last year.
The former home secretary said the government must "act now" to cut the numbers coming to the UK."

What she didn't add was "We have been in power now for 13 years, and have allowed this to get completely out of hand, while whatabouting about the EU, which was completely irrelevant; I blame myself for my complete and utter uselessness in this debacle, which to be honest, we don't really give a shit about, unless we can weaponize it"

 

[Zeberdi]

The former home secretary said the government must "act now" to cut the numbers coming to the UK."

What she didn't add was "We have been in power now for 13 years, and have allowed this to get completely out of hand, while whatabouting about the EU, which was completely irrelevant; I blame myself for my complete and utter uselessness in this debacle, which to be honest, we don't really give a shit about, unless we can weaponize it"

You should apply for her job as her Press Secretary, H - she clearly had trouble getting her messaging across

 

[jackalbion]

There are more problems than solutions in this world. It’s very easy to throw your hands up in horror at a policy or a perceived mishandling of a situation. But if you do that, expect to be asked how you, or your party, might deal with it better. It’s not a trick question, or not when asked by me anyway. I’m genuinely interested. I think the 'small boats' issue and illegal immigration in general is one of the toughest problems we face. (I’ve no problem whatever with legal immigration — I was an economic migrant myself for many years.) I just don’t think there is a good, sustainable answer to that question. There was at one time an agreement that EU countries could return asylum seekers to the country they first arrived in, or registered in. It was hailed as a panacea but it’s never worked, mainly because Italy and Greece would be overwhelmed, and basically refused to cooperate. So even if we reinstated that agreement somehow, I can’t see it working. In any case, all one is doing there is shunting the problem somewhere else. It may be too late now but the only option I see is a coordinated effort to significantly increase overseas aid to try to create the infrastructure and society in certain countries that might incentivise people to stay. But even there I can see loads of potential flaws, not least of all that it would take many years to accomplish.

Over to you.

It’s interesting the point you make that Italy and Greece would be overwhelmed, because I’ve often thought about this. There has to be a better way of processing asylum claims for all nations, as there just isn’t a good legitimate system to do so. I think really to solve it, like you said, you need to go to the root cause and look at why people are leaving said country. If we stop small boats, it'll just move the problem, and it'll eventually come Back.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s interesting the point you make that Italy and Greece would be overwhelmed, because I’ve often thought about this. There has to be a better way of processing asylum claims for all nations, as there just isn’t a good legitimate system to do so. I think really to solve it, like you said, you need to go to the root cause and look at why people are leaving said country. If we stop small boats, it'll just move the problem, and it'll eventually come Back.

It was always the case that the campsite in France and the relentless attempts by folk to steal a way across the channel was totally f***ed up. The people were in France, mostly 'illegally' with perhaps grounds to seek asylum. Yet the French left them be as they plotted a flit to Blighty. Instead of engaging the Tories weaponized this, then their leader ballsed up the Brexit vote because of it.

We were in the EU at one point and this was an EU problem, And yet 'we' did f*** all to engage properly, and failed abjectly to find a solution. Lead. like we imagine is in our genotype. British knowhow. Instead.....we flounced and left the EU.

It beggars belief. Now we have nothing to offer the French other than to beg for their help.

And it is all weaponized by the Tories because our 'problem' pales to insignificance versus what faces the Germans and Italians.

Well done Tories. Boo. BOO!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I also think many thought that immigration from places like India and Africa would decrease after Brexit because the numbers were controlled by the EU.

A very clever Indian neighbour of mine voted for Brexit because he knew it would in theory allow for easier immigration from India.

.. and he told me that before the vote.

I'm sorry I'm finding this all hilarious.

The other diamond being that Britain will "start making/growing things again" whilst "our imports will be cheaper from outside the EU".

Leaflets were aimed at the Asian community to vote for Brexit, because future trade deals with India would include more immigration. Europeans were classed as queue jumpers (Theresa May) because of Freedom of Movement.

As for other European countries taking in asylum seekers, Britain is way down the list.

 

[jcdenton08]

It’s confusing to me that people are point scoring saying “well, immigration is soaring, it’s the worst it’s ever been under the Tories”. This is absolutely true, of course.

But then if you say “well, the immigration is out of hand and needs to be brought under control regardless of who is in government”, you are - as one user ‘delicately’ put it in the Netherlands election thread, “xenophobic and racist”.

If people could put party politics aside they’d be stronger and more well-rounded people, regardless of which cabal they align with.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

It was always the case that the campsite in France and the relentless attempts by folk to steal a way across the channel was totally f***ed up. The people were in France, mostly 'illegally' with perhaps grounds to seek asylum. Yet the French left them be as they plotted a flit to Blighty. Instead of engaging the Tories weaponized this, then their leader ballsed up the Brexit vote because of it.

We were in the EU at one point and this was an EU problem, And yet 'we' did f*** all to engage properly, and failed abjectly to find a solution. Lead. like we imagine is in our genotype. British knowhow. Instead.....we flounced and left the EU.

It beggars belief. Now we have nothing to offer the French other than to beg for their help.

And it is all weaponized by the Tories because our 'problem' pales to insignificance versus what faces the Germans and Italians.

Well done Tories. Boo. BOO!

Nail head hammer scenario.…… “we did f*** all to engage properly…..”

 

[beorhthelm]

It was always the case that the campsite in France and the relentless attempts by folk to steal a way across the channel was totally f***ed up. The people were in France, mostly 'illegally' with perhaps grounds to seek asylum. Yet the French left them be as they plotted a flit to Blighty. Instead of engaging the Tories weaponized this, then their leader ballsed up the Brexit vote because of it.

We were in the EU at one point and this was an EU problem, And yet 'we' did f*** all to engage properly, and failed abjectly to find a solution. Lead. like we imagine is in our genotype. British knowhow. Instead.....we flounced and left the EU.

It beggars belief. Now we have nothing to offer the French other than to beg for their help.

And it is all weaponized by the Tories because our 'problem' pales to insignificance versus what faces the Germans and Italians.

Well done Tories. Boo. BOO!

hold on. Sangette refugee camp was closed by French in 2002, the following years saw rules to fine lorry drivers for carrying immigrants, laws changed around claims to discourage asylum seekers. 25% Netherlands just voted for anti-immigration party, Dublin is in flames over an immigrant related incident. this is widespread issue, its not popped up here because of one party. if we keep thinking this is a party political issue, fat chance of doing anything to address it, and fuel the resentment and hostility.

 

[southstandandy]

I suspect most Brexiteers weren't aware of the Dublin III agreement pre-Brexit regarding immigration. So for those who voted for purely xenophobic reasons, this was a massive own goal.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

If people could put party politics aside they’d be stronger and more well-rounded people, regardless of which cabal they align with.

Well said. Most people are more interested in point-scoring and angry whataboutery than actually engaging with the issue to find a solution. I’ve been a member of two political parties (not since the 90s) including quite a long stint with Labour. They did my head in.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well said. Most people are more interested in point-scoring and angry whataboutery than actually engaging with the issue to find a solution. I’ve been a member of two political parties (not since the 90s) including quite a long stint with Labour. They did my head in.

Here's the solution you're looking for

Reverse the steps taken by the current Government over the last 13 years. Namely,

1. Reinstate the ability to claim Asylum from abroad and let those granted asylum come into Britain, start work and contribute to Society.
2. Reopen legal Asylum routes to allow claimants
3. Work with Interpol again to target people traffickers
3. Re-employ more caseworkers to clear the backlog of applications.

You will then reverse the current Government policy of forcing asylum seekers into the hands of people smugglers and risking their lives in the channel. Interestingly, the Government's policy of having 10's of thousands arriving across the channel completely uncontrolled and not processing them, has allowed all sorts of people to get in, something Albanian gangs caught onto quickly, obviously far more competent than our Government

Boat Crossings
(Numbers weren't recorded prior to 2018 as the government thought them inconsequential).
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,890
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755

Asylum Backlog
2012 - 9,800
2018 - 27,000
2022 - 161,000

Because if you actually process them, you don't have to pay for barges, flights to Rwanda, Hostels, etc or any of this other complete bolleaux.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s confusing to me that people are point scoring saying “well, immigration is soaring, it’s the worst it’s ever been under the Tories”. This is absolutely true, of course.

But then if you say “well, the immigration is out of hand and needs to be brought under control regardless of who is in government”, you are - as one user ‘delicately’ put it in the Netherlands election thread, “xenophobic and racist”.

If people could put party politics aside they’d be stronger and more well-rounded people, regardless of which cabal they align with.

I think it’s more that the Tory’s sold Brexit and their election bid on the promise that they’d “stop the boats”. Knowing this would appeal to a certain type of voter.

Of course they had no intention of stopping the boats. Quite the opposite. They cut admin staff and blamed everything in asylum seekers.

As they continue to do. It’s the goose that lays the golden egg.

So it’s more a criticism of the dishonest criminals in government than anything else.

I reckon .