[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[aolstudios]

If the cap fits……..

& up pops my second favourite Antisemite...

 

[armchairclubber]

My point was that I don't think Thatcher or Israel supported South Africa because of Jews and gold. South Africa was a last bastion of "civilization" and free marketry in a continent increasingly overrun by self-styled Marxists lunatics like Ebagum (as Private Eye called him) in Zimbabwe and the MPLA in Angola. The 80s was still a time when communist plots and the spread of international marxism was a mainstream concern of the right, even then centre right. So it seems a bit needless to wheel out the old trope about Jews and gold every time Israel and its one-eyed foreign policy is mentioned.

That said @sydney has contacts in South Africa so presumably he knows best.

My view? The time the bombing stopped was some time ago.

Unfortunately as an active member of the Labour Party I don't think your voice is being heard.

 

[wellquickwoody]

& up pops my second favourite Antisemite...

If drawing your attention to uncomfortable truths, this particular incident or not, brings the first turn to defence from Judaism then so be it. I know what I am, I am not ashamed of criticising Jews or Israel when I believe that they are in the wrong, nor willI I defend Palestinians when they are wrong. But you? Hear no, speak no, see no etc etc.. EIGHT THOUSAND children killed by the IDF, FACT, in less than three months, go on, defend that.

 

[aolstudios]

If drawing your attention to uncomfortable truths, this particular incident or not, brings the first turn to defence from Judaism then so be it. I know what I am, I am not ashamed of criticising Jews or Israel when I believe that they are in the wrong, nor willI I defend Palestinians when they are wrong. But you? Hear no, speak no, see no etc etc.. EIGHT THOUSAND children killed by the IDF, FACT, in less than three months, go on, defend that.

Yep. Antisemite & proud, regularly
You know capitals do t make you any more convincing or correct, don't you Einstein?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Yep. Antisemite & proud, regularly
You know capitals do t make you any more convincing or correct, don't you Einstein?

Still no answer to the 8,000 children question then?

 

[aolstudios]

Still no answer to the 8,000 children question then?

Those numbers are direct from Hamas. Who weirdly also never have combatants in their instantly made up 'figures'.
Tbf, you're only interested in Jew hate so there's not going to be a conversation between us without it, is there Hamas boy

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Those numbers are direct from Hamas. Who weirdly also never have combatants in their instantly made up 'figures'.
Tbf, you're only interested in Jew hate so there's not going to be a conversation between us without it, is there Hamas boy

Feel free to provide a figure that you think is realistic for the number of children killed, sorry murdered, by Israel then. The photos from Gaza speak for themselves about the indiscriminate murder being carried out by the IDF ( even their hostages ! ).

 

[aolstudios]

Feel free to provide a figure that you think is realistic for the number of children killed, sorry murdered, by Israel then. The photos from Gaza speak for themselves about the indiscriminate murder being carried out by the IDF ( even their hostages ! ).

I have no idea. & neither do you. It's a war. Not that you're interested. You appear almost as ill informed as wqw. Although with him it's deliberate

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Unfortunately as an active member of the Labour Party I don't think your voice is being heard.

Well, I may prefer that Israel stop what they are doing now, this minute, but in doing so I am accepting that Hamas will regroup, rearm and start all over again. For others this is not acceptable and I cannot in truth demand that my preference be acted upon. That said Starmer's position has evolved (see below).

In a wider context I don't have the arrogance to presume I can dictate every labour policy. If they go too far out of my comfort zone I will resign (as I did before when Blair wanted to give state funding to religious schools). Not near there yet.

What Starmer is focused on is urging a negotiated settlement. However I don't think it matters a jot what he calls for. There are only two relevant players in this conflict: Israel and America. All the UK can do is quietly lobby America as best it can, without making America think we are just like the French (all fur coat and no knickers).

As I have noted, one of my brothers is up on the anti war protests, but he has stated repeatedly since Starmer got in that he will vote against labour because it isn't left wing enough for him (thereby denying labour a vote and wasting his own, which benefits the tories). He remains a Corbyn fan. He is not and never was a labour party member. I prefer to operate in a political world where the art of the possible is king.

Given all that, Starmer's latest statement is fine by me.

"I welcome today’s vote at the United Nations Security Council. The horrors of recent months have been intolerable. This resolution describes how we must work for a sustained ceasefire. The next humanitarian truce is urgent, and in the space it brings, intense diplomacy should begin to set new terms under which fighting does not restart and the risk of escalation is reduced.

Hamas must release all the remaining hostages, end all attacks on Israel and have no role in the future governance of Gaza. Israel must agree to end its bombing campaign, allow a humanitarian surge into Gaza, and end settler violence and displacement in the West Bank.

A sustained ceasefire is necessary, but not sufficient, for long term peace. Over recent weeks, I’ve been in discussion with leaders from Europe, America and the Middle East, including Israel and Palestine. There have been no serious peace talks in more than a decade. That’s why there must be a new political process that has the capacity, conviction and commitment to turn the rhetoric around two states living side by side in peace into reality.

The next Labour government will be dedicated to working towards this. The international community must be spurred into action rather than shy away from the challenge. The future of Israelis and Palestinians depends on it."

 

[Bakero]

I have no idea. & neither do you. It's a war. Not that you're interested. You appear almost as ill informed as wqw. Although with him it's deliberate

Quibble over the figures if you wish but it's undeniable that there has been a large number of civilian deaths, many of whom were children. This is hardly surprising given the sheer number of bombs and Gaza's demographics.

A war it may be but that doesn't mean it's a free for all. There are rules of war for a good reason.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I have no idea. & neither do you. It's a war. Not that you're interested. You appear almost as ill informed as wqw. Although with him it's deliberate

OK, understandably you don't trust Hamas figures. How about HRW figures ( broadly similar to the UN figures ) ? 5,500 children ! "Taking all precautions to avoid civilian casualties" - my arse. Just murdering in the way civilians - just as bad as Hamas - both Hamas and the IDF / Israeli government are murderous terrorists - only one is better armed.

Israel/Gaza Hostilities Take Horrific Toll on Children

An estimated 5,500 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7, according to Gaza’s government media office, amid widespread airstrikes by the Israeli military. Hundreds more are reported missing and may be trapped under the rubble.

www.hrw.org

 

[Zeberdi]

OK, understandably you don't trust Hamas figures. How about HRW figures ( broadly similar to the UN figures ) ? 5,500 children ! "Taking all precautions to avoid civilian casualties" - my arse. Just murdering in the way civilians - just as bad as Hamas - both Hamas and the IDF / Israeli government are murderous terrorists - only one is better armed.

Israel/Gaza Hostilities Take Horrific Toll on Children

An estimated 5,500 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7, according to Gaza’s government media office, amid widespread airstrikes by the Israeli military. Hundreds more are reported missing and may be trapped under the rubble.

www.hrw.org

Good choice of source material but those figures are from 22nd November, nearly 5 weeks ago - we can be absolutely certain they are much higher than 5,500 now.

Can you find a more updated estimate please?

 

[Zeberdi]

UK organisation explains how they are trying to verify Hamas controlled Ministry of Health figures

Perspective - How UK-based watchdog Airwars is counting Gaza's death toll

How can the deaths of Palestinians in Gaza be monitored by outside organisations? Nearly 19,000 people have been killed in 10 weeks of war, according to the Hamas-run health authorities. The credibility…

www.france24.com

 

[knocky1]

Those numbers are direct from Hamas. Who weirdly also never have combatants in their instantly made up 'figures'.
Tbf, you're only interested in Jew hate so there's not going to be a conversation between us without it, is there Hamas boy

Just replying in amazement and to await your Pavlov dog screams of laughter emoji.
No idea on why you support this murder of civilians so avidly.
Your logic states that 30% of Israeli's are Anti Semitic for disagreeing with the incessant bombardment of Palestinian civilians by an extreme Right Wing ****.

 

[aolstudios]

5 mins to

Just replying in amazement and to await your Pavlov dog screams of laughter emoji.
No idea on why you support this murder of civilians so avidly.
Your logic states that 30% of Israeli's are Anti Semitic for disagreeing with the incessant bombardment of Palestinian civilians by an extreme Right Wing ****.

Not at all. I'm simply stating that the poster I'm replying to is regularly Antisemitic. It colours things somewhat

 

[knocky1]

Good choice of source material but those figures are from 22nd November, nearly 5 weeks ago - we can be absolutely certain they are much higher than 5,500 now.

Can you find a more updated estimate please?

164 IDF military against 28,000 Palestinians. Up to 10,000 bodies are still buried under bombed buildings. Could anyone dispute that possibility?

 

[wellquickwoody]

5 mins to
Not at all. I'm simply stating that the poster I'm replying to is regularly Antisemitic. It colours things somewhat

In my opinion, less anti semetic, more intolerant of Jewish/Israeli lies than you, and unwilling to accept the excuses given to cover these lies up.

 

[Bakero]

In my opinion, less anti semetic, more intolerant of Jewish/Israeli lies than you, and unwilling to accept the excuses given to cover these lies up.

When you say Israeli lies, I take it you mean the state/government, which is fair enough. But what do you mean by Jewish lies? Who in particular has lied and what did they say?

 

[armchairclubber]

Surely there was something more moderate in Der Stürmer @aolstudios

 

[BrianSwan]

Remarkable how Iran can manipulate the entire world so easily.

Goal: Prevent Saudi Arabia and Israel normalising relations and making the middle east safer.
---> Fund Hamas and plan huge terror attack
---> Wait for Israel to total Gaza in revenge
---> Profit from Muslims around the world's outrage