Gus gets the boot

[ROSM]

Would it have been gross misconduct if a) there was no permission from the Albion to do so, and b) as a result of doing so and becoming caught up in heavy traffic on the way back from doing so, it affected the individual's ability to properly undertake pre-match duties for the club who employed him?

I think if he could demonstrate either implied or express permission then that wouldn't be no.

As for the matchday, I'm.not sure there is a set list of things a manager must do or where they need to be by when so again that's unlikely if indeed it is the case that it happened.

 

[ROSM]

So the rumours are that Poyet fell out with Barber.

And the rumours are that Poyet fell out with De Fanti ( sacked ), and then fell out with Congleton, at Sunderland.


Seems to fall out a lot with senior club figures.

I have apportioned no blame in what I have written although I think it's easy and perhaps understandable to fall out with someone who sacks you.

 

[AlastairWatts]

but wasn't this after he'd 'phoned Garcia to ask to come back/carry on? Wasn't Garcia supposed to get back to him and never did?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I am astounded at the level of revisionist theories this thread has spawned.

The accepted position at the time was that when Paul Barber was appointed (a man who had been part of the spurs board that had sacked Poyet and ramos at spurs) it was patently obvious they wouldn't get on. Whether the reason for the appointment was partly to help curb the creative but frustrating Uruguayan is more unclear

When noone was sold, Gp was not happy and told a number of senior club figures that.

Over the winter while TB was warming up in oz, the Barber/Poyet relationship went from bad to worse

When TB returned (just before the palace home game) , Gp advised he would be resigning. If it was a me or barber move then TB clearly chose barber but it was agreed that Gus would stay to the summer but could speak to other clubs (I'm sure the albion would have preferred if he was to go to get some compensation)

Reading approached and under the agreement, Gus was able to speak to them but chose to stay

We then went on that amazing run to the season end where we nearly snatched an automatic place

Then he gets suspended and ultimately sacked

So, ultimately speaking to reading is not disloyal, speaking to Fulham wouldn't have been misconduct, it didn't affect the team. Nobody lost out on that whole scenario except, in the end, probably a handful of people loyal to Gp who are no.longer working for the club.

Please also note I haven't put blame on anybody in this post. I have my views on how the parting was handled bit that's not for this conversation.

I am.finding it hard to revel.in the sacking of a man who developed a style of play and a number of performances that have been the best I have witnessed in 40 years of supporting the club.

Pretty much how I feel too, as once Barber was appointed, (and I'm not saying it was a bad appointment, we were haemorrhaging TB's money) it was always going to end in tears.

However, it still doesn't clear up what the gross misconduct was, and why our team failed to turn up for the second leg of the play-offs.

 

[BensGrandad]

I wonder if Gus will figure in Brentfords plans for a continental style management team when Warburton goes at the end of the season. If so we will see him at The Amex next year possibly with Bridcutt and Buckley.

 

[Mellotron]

I am astounded at the level of revisionist theories this thread has spawned.

The accepted position at the time was that when Paul Barber was appointed (a man who had been part of the spurs board that had sacked Poyet and ramos at spurs) it was patently obvious they wouldn't get on. Whether the reason for the appointment was partly to help curb the creative but frustrating Uruguayan is more unclear

When noone was sold, Gp was not happy and told a number of senior club figures that.

Over the winter while TB was warming up in oz, the Barber/Poyet relationship went from bad to worse

When TB returned (just before the palace home game) , Gp advised he would be resigning. If it was a me or barber move then TB clearly chose barber but it was agreed that Gus would stay to the summer but could speak to other clubs (I'm sure the albion would have preferred if he was to go to get some compensation)

Reading approached and under the agreement, Gus was able to speak to them but chose to stay

We then went on that amazing run to the season end where we nearly snatched an automatic place

Then he gets suspended and ultimately sacked

So, ultimately speaking to reading is not disloyal, speaking to Fulham wouldn't have been misconduct, it didn't affect the team. Nobody lost out on that whole scenario except, in the end, probably a handful of people loyal to Gp who are no.longer working for the club.

Please also note I haven't put blame on anybody in this post. I have my views on how the parting was handled bit that's not for this conversation.

I am.finding it hard to revel.in the sacking of a man who developed a style of play and a number of performances that have been the best I have witnessed in 40 years of supporting the club.

Superb post. Particularly the bit in bold. It is BAFFLING the attitudes of so many to one of our best ever managers.

 

[severnside gull]

Throughout his tenure at Albion and increasingly so, Gus openly touted himself for other jobs. This pre-dated any supposed "permission" and aggravated if not entirely alienated many fans who were less than amused that he made it very clear that the club they love was not good enough for Gus Poyet.
Now I entirely understand that everyone is entitled to be ambitious but rubbing peoples' noses in it doesn't win you popularity.

Interesting that throughout this season Gus has apparently been touting himself for other jobs.
Most amusing is that Palace were among those he now views as being a progression (or at least a bolt-hole)

There is an inescapable pattern to his behaviour which in a world as predicated on disloyalty as professional football is not even slightly unreasonable. He does however possess an exceptional ability to alienate both his employers and the clubs' fans which will, as his career progresses, make him increasingly difficult to employ. Given these innate abilities it is unsurprising that many on here have reacted as they have.

No matter how talented you may be an invariable truth is that you run the risk of reaping what you sow.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I love the way fans use the words loyalty and disloyalty regarding players and managers. The only loyal ones are the fans. To players and managers, it is just a job.
Do any of you feel undying loyalty to your boss? If another firm came in , offering you more money, in a better position, would you take it? How many of you apply for other jobs, whilst working at your present firm?

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

I think if he could demonstrate either implied or express permission then that wouldn't be no.

And if he couldn't?

 

[symyjym]

Don't know how true this is;

Extract "Poyet put himself forward to West Ham last summer and then to Crystal Palace more recently"

http://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20150317/283192966847155/TextView

 

[WATFORD zero]

If another firm came in , offering you more money, in a better position, would you take it? How many of you apply for other jobs, whilst working at your present firm?

Interestingly i had both those situations while i was working, and did all of those (Stayed in positions when offered more, took new positions when offered more and applied whilst still at a job).

What i wouldn't have done though, was to tell my staff that i was looking/leaving and told some of them that they could come with me. That would have been gross misconduct under the terms of my contracts and would have got me a very poor reputation in a fairly small industry. I don't consider myself overly loyal, just professional. But that's just me

 

[ROSM]

Interestingly i had both those situations while i was working, and did all of those (Stayed in positions when offered more, took new positions when offered more and applied whilst still at a job).

What i wouldn't have done though, was to tell my staff that i was looking/leaving and told some of them that they could come with me. That would have been gross misconduct under the terms of my contracts and would have got me a very poor reputation in a fairly small industry. I don't consider myself overly loyal, just professional. But that's just me

Very interesting point - albeit any company would have real issues in proving this ever happened if your staff, you and any representatives your staff may have would deny that this happened.

 

[withdeanwombat]

I love the way fans use the words loyalty and disloyalty regarding players and managers. The only loyal ones are the fans. To players and managers, it is just a job.
Do any of you feel undying loyalty to your boss? If another firm came in , offering you more money, in a better position, would you take it? How many of you apply for other jobs, whilst working at your present firm?

This is absolutely spot on. We're talking about professional football here, which means making a living from football. All this holding up of shirts, and kissing badges means precious little in the end........sacked, sold , allowed to leave. On to hold up another shirt, kiss another badge.

Only the clubs' fans are a constant. Going to games, buying the merchandise, eating the pies, drinking the Bovril. Being, well, fanatics. Doesn't matter whether your club is going to Newcastle (away) or Carlisle (away), whether league or non league. You are there. Might be different players, a different manager/coach.

But it's the same you (only poorer) ,

 

[WATFORD zero]

Very interesting point - albeit any company would have real issues in proving this ever happened if your staff, you and any representatives your staff may have would deny that this happened.

You're right, the company may have issues proving it if i was extremely subtle and not prone to dramatic outbursts

 

[severnside gull]

I love the way fans use the words loyalty and disloyalty regarding players and managers. The only loyal ones are the fans. To players and managers, it is just a job.
Do any of you feel undying loyalty to your boss? If another firm came in , offering you more money, in a better position, would you take it? How many of you apply for other jobs, whilst working at your present firm?

100% correct. Disloyalty is an essential for managers & players. It is how you elect to display it that makes the difference.

 

[NooBHA]

I love the way fans use the words loyalty and disloyalty regarding players and managers. The only loyal ones are the fans. To players and managers, it is just a job.
Do any of you feel undying loyalty to your boss? If another firm came in , offering you more money, in a better position, would you take it? How many of you apply for other jobs, whilst working at your present firm?

I disagree that Managers are not loyal - The only sure thing about being a football manager is that eventually you will be sacked. Alex ferguson and Arsene Wenger to date being the only exceptions to that rule.

My post here is not to defend Poyet as i think his demeanor is arrogant at the very least.

Many managers would be loyal to their clubs if given the chance. It is the Chairmen and board of a club that are not so loyal but they expect the loyalty from the fans. The Press don't help. They tout rumours about someone who will be sacke if they dont win the next match then slate the club for unfairly sacking them.

We live in an upside down world

 

[solly]

Found his true level, clearly a good championship manager, but not good enough for the PL. I agree will probalby turn up at Fulham / Leicester

 

[BensGrandad]

Found his true level, clearly a good championship manager, but not good enough for the PL. I agree will probalby turn up at Fulham / Leicester

I would put my money on Brentford

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I disagree that Managers are not loyal - The only sure thing about being a football manager is that eventually you will be sacked. Alex ferguson and Arsene Wenger to date being the only exceptions to that rule.

My post here is not to defend Poyet as i think his demeanor is arrogant at the very least.

Many managers would be loyal to their clubs if given the chance. It is the Chairmen and board of a club that are not so loyal but they expect the loyalty from the fans. The Press don't help. They tout rumours about someone who will be sacke if they dont win the next match then slate the club for unfairly sacking them.

We live in an upside down world

You make some very good points. The media are a lot to blame for the current culture.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I would put my money on Brentford

Recently weaned on an attractive attacking style under Warburton, the Bees fans are going to love Gus' ultra cautious approach.