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General Election 2015



Thank you. I think I'm safe especially as not a single person has ever been prosecuted for this "offence" inside a polling station or outside. Found this:

"Although Pt II and III of the RPA have specific provisions relating to interpretation, Pt I (containing this offence) does not. The general interpretation section does not assist either. Searching the electronic database there appears to have been a grand total of precisely zero prosecutions under the Act.

Is the law sensible? No, in a word. As to how it came about, you can see how it made sense at one point, and it is clearly designed to protect the secret ballot. I haven’t checked Hansard, but I doubt anyone would consider prosecuting somebody for revealing how they themselves have voted. I doubt that it would survive an Art 10 challenge and/or an abuse on public interest grounds.

As to how this came about, the clue is in the year of the Act – 1983. To take and communicate a selfie at that time would have involved taking in a camera, dropping the negatives off at Boots, waiting for a few days before collecting them and posting them to your “followers” – a time consuming process. As in so many areas, the internet has been a game changer and the law is playing catch up (the Law Commission is scheduled to look at Electoral Law, reporting back with recommendations next summer)."

As a former candidate in local elections, my recollection of how S.66 is applied in practice is that everyone (polling clerks, candidates and party tellers) is aware of the rules. In practice, this means that no-one is allowed to ask voters how they have voted until they have physically left the premises. What goes on outside in the street is of no concern to the polling clerks.
 




It's definitely getting close. Mrs Gwylan, who's standing for councillor, received a load of bumf from the chief executive yesterday about what happens if she's elected (there's little danger of that though).

But I also noticed how few of the local would-be councillors lived in the area

The Tories are making a very big deal out of their expectations that they can easily unseat Norman Baker in Lewes. But when it comes to the Lewes Town Council election, it's very noticeable that the Conservative Party find it almost totally impossible to put up candidates who live in the area where Lewes Town Council plays a role in local administration. How they imagine that shipping in outsiders will win them popular support is a mystery to me.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
... The Tories in addition weren't advocating cuts until some time after the recession, so I refuse to buy in to this 'Labour wrecked the economy, Osborne restored it/chaos vs competence' narrative.

Tories have *always* advocated a smaller state, and the cuts are an extension of that. the narrative you note is somewhat false, "Labour over-cooked the economy, Osborne did as little as possible to allow it to right itself" is a more accurate one. thats why the no boom bust claim is so damning, because it was myth that allowed old rules of fiscal governance to be ignored.
 


heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,471
I thought this was a traditional joke which every outgoing treasury does?
Oh I see, just their little joke, we should have known, quite original though, I hadn't heard that happening before, must have missed it, and the papers missed it too it seems, how odd.
 






drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
making the odd mistake in one of his first budgets 4 years ago having just inherited a bankrupt country with "there is no money left" from labour. and now look at the country, not only the fastest growing economy in the western world, creating more jobs in the uk than the whole rest of the EU...... heres some facts, the poorest are paying much less in tax now than under labour, the gap between richest and poorest has shortened, it was higher under labour. in the same period Osbourne made a couple of mistakes in a budget years ago, Labours chief economic brains (that had just recently bankrupted the country) predicted every single one of George Osbournes plans would not work and would create mass unemployment, would result in recession and no growth. Unsuprisingly every single forecast was hopelessly wrong.

When it comes to economic competence Labour don't have a leg to stand on because they dont understand economics, they understand borrowing, debt and taxes, they believe governments create jobs and not business, and every time a Labour government is let near the states finances it always always ends up in massive debts, high taxes and bankruptcy with our kids having thousands heaped onto their shoulders from Labours gratuitous over spending.

This government as unpalatable as it may be has done a lot more for my baby son in trying to clean up Labours mess and it's made more low earners have more in their pocket to provide for their families. And for for all labours promises, its all garbage until they learn the art of running a country within its means, creating growth without growing deficits. Otherwise its credit card economics that will always end up in everyone suffering, the poorest the most when the day to pay it all back comes.

Omnishambles :) I dont like Osbourne but his record is spectacular as also agreed by the head of the IMF and just about every respectable independent body.... except of course the incompetent snearing idiots that created the problems, rubbished all proposals to rectify their mistakes, predicted none of what has worked would work and cant give credit to those that created record unemployment and more jobs.

I do give credit to Labour for having a social concience, creating the NHS and theyre not all bad or not well meaning.... but they have no right to critisise Osbournes miraculous economic recovery, on the back of the disaster they left behind or to try and pretend that the current `Tory party is the same as Thatchers, it isnt. Thatchers was nasty, but the current bunch are far removed and have reinvented much (of course that doenst suit Labour who will always hate and try and rubbish everything regardless of truth - Labour also needs also to reinvent itself, it hasn't learned anything from its recent mistakes) its a statistical fact this Tory/Lid Dem has done more to to lessen the inequality gap, will raise the minimum wage more, has given everyone a payrise by raising the personal allowance by 4 grand and taken many out of tax. This lat government built more social housing that the labour government, strange but true......and the real nasty party is the party that leaves economic calamity and mismanagement to be paid for by all citizens of the country, including the poor. Where debt interest is more per year than we spend on education.

So keep to the lies, spin and PR, there's not much substance is there?

Former Labour voter in 97 01 and 05

The fact you describe the country as bankrupt in 2010 suggests the rest of your post is just Tory spin and PR as well. We were never in the same situation as the likes of Spain, Italy, Greece and Ireland. You talk of economic incompetence as if it never happens on a Tory watch.

The Tories told us they would eliminate the deficit. They haven't come close. There wasn't going to be a top down reorganisation of the NHS. It was virtually the first thing they did. They have given massive tax breaks to the very wealthy whilst at the same time making life harder for many of those that can least cope with it, e.g. the disaster that was ATOS.

Right to buy is something the left fought against and now embrace and agree with. Giving people the right to buy the home they may have lived in for years was always a good thing..... The problem is how to replace \ rebuild what was lost.

Mining, now there's an interesting subject... No doubt everyone's memory remembers the Thatcher Scargill struggle, but it's a little known fact more pits were closed and miners mafe redundant under the previous 70's labour government than finally under thatcher. Scargill wanted to bring down thatcher. Labour made more miners unemployed than the Tory's as my ex 58 year old ex leceistershire 3rd generation miner colleague never tires of telling me.

What irks is not whether thatcher is right or wrong or Scargill right or wrong its the rampant hypocrisy. The same hypocrisy that currently tries to blame the Tory's for privitising the NHS (by 1%) from a labour party who first privatised parts of the nhs (by 5%)
@Synavum I agree and disagree, the boom in the early noughties was built mainly on cheap personal debt, equity release et all, debt fuelled growth is perceived. The gold sell off was a massive mistake and then brown bought a lot of Japanese yen with the money and that tanked.

It wasn't the global crisis that caused our country to bankruptcy, in 2007 in the election that never was, when milliband and balls both urged brown to go to the polls before brown bottled. Both Alistair darling and balls urged brown as they could see financial calamity with UK finances around the corner. The banking crisis (after massive deregulation under labour) deepened the crash in the UK, it did not cause it.
@Ernest yes the exchange rate mechanism was a massive schoolboy error that drove interest rates to unaffordable levels for many. That was over 2 decades ago. Over 3 decades ago the country was bankrupted in 79 also.

I voted labour 3 times and I could again, if maybe David milliband was leader.

I genuinely believe the majority of the country are centrist, maybe a bit left like new labour or a bit right like the tories,. They're not hard left like current labour or old labour and not hard right like thatcher or ukip. Labours lurch to left was an error. They don't lack social conscience but fiscal prudence underpins everything unless you don't care about any consequences. The economy is only the most important part because every other public service relies on money. We can borrow but that's not a long term answer as it has to be paid as does interest.

Bring back something more akin to new labour (centrist) and I'll be all ears.

Right to Buy was in fact a Labour idea, it was in their 1959 manifesto. You are right though, it is the replacement of the stock that is more relevant. Thatcher didn't allow councils to rebuild the stock and that probably was the catalyst for today's problems. With regard to the Tories building more affordable/social housing, have you got a link to that statistic? The new scheme is going to further reduce the stock of social housing as council's will not be able to afford to replace all of the ones that are sold

Finally, I love your claim that the global crisis did not cause our crash. As others have alluded to, the crash would have happened under whichever party was in power.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,641
The Fatherland
One highlight of which was the opportunity to congratulate the new MP for Hove in person - as he enjoyed a pre-match cup of tea with the new Chairman of the Albion.

I remember seeing an Atilla gig in the evening and getting leg-less on a combination of champagne and then local cider. It wasn't pretty.
 


glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
gideon saves 3b
does that make the slightest difference to me .................no
just that he has squeezed a few more pips out of us and can puff his chest out a bit .........great job gideon now magic the food banks away .....thanks
 






Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,670
Fiveways
Tories have *always* advocated a smaller state, and the cuts are an extension of that.

No they haven't. They accepted a far larger state during the postwar consensus, for instance.
Brown should never had said no more boom or bust, especially given the policies he was pursuing. We can agree on that, can't we?
 


Stumpy Tim

Well-known member
Right to buy is something the left fought against and now embrace and agree with. Giving people the right to buy the home they may have lived in for years was always a good thing..... The problem is how to replace \ rebuild what was lost.

Mining, now there's an interesting subject... No doubt everyone's memory remembers the Thatcher Scargill struggle, but it's a little known fact more pits were closed and miners mafe redundant under the previous 70's labour government than finally under thatcher. Scargill wanted to bring down thatcher. Labour made more miners unemployed than the Tory's as my ex 58 year old ex leceistershire 3rd generation miner colleague never tires of telling me.

What irks is not whether thatcher is right or wrong or Scargill right or wrong its the rampant hypocrisy. The same hypocrisy that currently tries to blame the Tory's for privitising the NHS (by 1%) from a labour party who first privatised parts of the nhs (by 5%)
@Synavum I agree and disagree, the boom in the early noughties was built mainly on cheap personal debt, equity release et all, debt fuelled growth is perceived. The gold sell off was a massive mistake and then brown bought a lot of Japanese yen with the money and that tanked.

It wasn't the global crisis that caused our country to bankruptcy, in 2007 in the election that never was, when milliband and balls both urged brown to go to the polls before brown bottled. Both Alistair darling and balls urged brown as they could see financial calamity with UK finances around the corner. The banking crisis (after massive deregulation under labour) deepened the crash in the UK, it did not cause it.
[MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] yes the exchange rate mechanism was a massive schoolboy error that drove interest rates to unaffordable levels for many. That was over 2 decades ago. Over 3 decades ago the country was bankrupted in 79 also.

I voted labour 3 times and I could again, if maybe David milliband was leader.

I genuinely believe the majority of the country are centrist, maybe a bit left like new labour or a bit right like the tories,. They're not hard left like current labour or old labour and not hard right like thatcher or ukip. Labours lurch to left was an error. They don't lack social conscience but fiscal prudence underpins everything unless you don't care about any consequences. The economy is only the most important part because every other public service relies on money. We can borrow but that's not a long term answer as it has to be paid as does interest.

Bring back something more akin to new labour (centrist) and I'll be all ears.

I think we share the same political leanings. I'm definitely New Labour. The closest now is the Lib Dems, but I have voted Labour (just sent my postal vote off) in Hove to help take down the Tories & their EU referendum policy - the single most damaging policy from the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems.
 






ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,224
Just far enough away from LDC
Oh I see, just their little joke, we should have known, quite original though, I hadn't heard that happening before, must have missed it, and the papers missed it too it seems, how odd.

The papers didn't miss it. They quoted previous exchanges such as between maudling and callaghan where the tory apologised for the mess and callaghan responded it seemed quite tidy to which old reggie replied ' I wasn't talking about the office dear boy'
 


heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,471
The papers didn't miss it. They quoted previous exchanges such as between maudling and callaghan where the tory apologised for the mess and callaghan responded it seemed quite tidy to which old reggie replied ' I wasn't talking about the office dear boy'
Christ, I am not that old, but point taken.
 




ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,224
Just far enough away from LDC
Christ, I am not that old, but point taken.

I can understand the tories perhaps not remembering the old traditions having been out of power for 13 years at thay stage. And as for David laws not knowing (he was the chief secretary who received the letter before having to resign in disgrace) poor liberals hadn't been in power since pontius was a pilot.

And we all know how seriously David Cameron takes jokes
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
I will be glad when this is all over and on May 8th I shall return to the Cliftonville and ORDER a MASSIVE Full English
Despite the recent economic problems, no tightening your belt.
 


BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,359
I will be glad when this is all over and on May 8th I shall return to the Cliftonville and ORDER a MASSIVE Full English

May well not be over on the 8th,Ernest.
Reckon that may be when the real fun and games start with every man and his dog trying to form a Government!
 








Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,670
Fiveways
Odds on who is going to form the next government still squarely in Labour's favour.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government

Yup. But for all those, including [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION], that rely on odds to predict election outcomes, read this from politicalbetting.com:

h1On election day 2010 the betting markets had CON with a 100 seat lead – it finished up at 49 seats
April 23rd, 2015


Actual seats won: CON 306, LAB 257, LD 57

One thing that really annoys me is when people start suggesting that betting prices are the best guide to what is going to happen.

If this were the case then favourites would always win. They don’t. In the two TV debates during this campaign the betting markets made Nigel Farage favourite to be judged the winner in post debate polling. He wasn’t.

But a better example of the shallowness of the perception is 2010. The above panel was published on PB just as the polling stations were opening. As can be seen the markets over-stated the Tories and LDs and over-stated understated LAB.

So we had the extraordinary position that the spreads had CON with a 100 seat lead – compared with the 49 seat one that they actually achieved.
I don’t bet to provide a prediction tool for journalists who can’t be arsed. I bet to try to win money. My bets are not predictions but personal assessments of value. Are the chances of something happening better in my view than the odds being offered. Sometimes I get it right – sometimes I don’t.

Betting prices are NOT a good indicator of political outcomes
 


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