Gaza(not the footballer) is going seriously Boobz Up

[User removed 4]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre



The hypocrisy of israels stance on hamas is breathtaking , Israel stole the land using terrorism

 

[Westdene Seagull]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre



The hypocrisy of israels stance on hamas is breathtaking , Israel stole the land using terrorism

Indeed. And lets not forget our so called allies tried to deflect the blame for a murder by using fake BRITISH passports. With friends like Israel you don't need enemies.

 

[n0-sIs]

The Media is not owned by jews and it is anti jewish....
The BBC is not jewish,

The western media IS MOSTLY owned by jewish people and/or MOSTLY takes a pro-Israel stance.......including the bbc.....whose many recent articles have been about Israel "defending themselves."


e.g have the BBC shown anything like this "defence" footage the past few days? Arab tv has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waSPsI9-ge8

Do you know that these people have been pushed and squeezed into this:

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I'm very "meh" about this - but perhaps that is wrong.

If you lob stones at someone who is bigger and stronger than you [even if justified], I would expect to get a thump back with interest.

But why lob the stones [aka rockets]?

In 1974 the Turks invaded Cyprus and evicted many Greeks. Both still live on the fairly small piece of land but do they lob stones or rockets at each other? No!, Now ask yourself why they choose to live in resentment but without [major] violence?

Now ask yourself why the Palestinians and Israelis seem to enjoy killing each other?

Is there any difference?

Very simple equation in life E + R = O Event + Response = Outcome

In other words, for any event, the chosen response will have a direct bearing on the outcome - shame that some folk can't see beyond this .....

 

[dingodan]

I'm very "meh" about this - but perhaps that is wrong.

If you lob stones at someone who is bigger and stronger than you [even if justified], I would expect to get a thump back with interest.

But why lob the stones [aka rockets]?

In 1974 the Turks invaded Cyprus and evicted many Greeks. Both still live on the fairly small piece of land but do they lob stones or rockets at each other? No!, Now ask yourself why they choose to live in resentment but without [major] violence?

Now ask yourself why the Palestinians and Israelis seem to enjoy killing each other?

Is there any difference?

Very simple equation in life E + R = O Event + Response = Outcome

In other words, for any event, the chosen response will have a direct bearing on the outcome - shame that some folk can't see beyond this .....

It's not about stones, or rockets, or missiles.

It's about occupation.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

In 1974 the Turks invaded Cyprus and evicted many Greeks. Both still live on the fairly small piece of land but do they lob stones or rockets at each other? No!, Now ask yourself why they choose to live in resentment but without [major] violence?

That might have something to do with a UN peace line controlled by UN troops.

 

[Simster]

I'm very "meh" about this - but perhaps that is wrong.

If you lob stones at someone who is bigger and stronger than you [even if justified], I would expect to get a thump back with interest.

But why lob the stones [aka rockets]?

In 1974 the Turks invaded Cyprus and evicted many Greeks. Both still live on the fairly small piece of land but do they lob stones or rockets at each other? No!, Now ask yourself why they choose to live in resentment but without [major] violence?

Now ask yourself why the Palestinians and Israelis seem to enjoy killing each other?

Is there any difference?

Very simple equation in life E + R = O Event + Response = Outcome

In other words, for any event, the chosen response will have a direct bearing on the outcome - shame that some folk can't see beyond this .....

There are some major differences between the conflicts. The major one being that the Turks and Greeks historically had their majorities at the opposite ends of the islands. So when it was partitioned and innocents were displaced, they were at least displaced to areas where there own kind had historically been the majority.

By contrast, Israel bullied and terrorised their way to the territory they now hold. Not only are there illegal settlements still being built on Arab land, but the Israelis also unilaterily decided that Jerusalem was theirs. And it was NEVER theirs to take - the UN declared it a protected city and not owned by either side, and Israel certainly has no more of a right to it than the Palestinians.

But the worst thing is, the status quo is maintained by western weaponry. You'd soon see the bullies running Israel head to the negotiating table if the USA and allies pulled the plug on this weaponry.

 

[Seagull Crow]

The whole situation is rather sad and intractable. The only viable and enduring resolution is a two state solution, which neither side really seem to want to sign up to - its such a shame, as there did seem to be considerable popular support for the notion as recently as the mid/late-2000s. Its clear that neither the Israelis nor Hamas are going to unilaterally lay down arms, so there needs to be degree of international mediation and governance through a party that both respect (and I don't think that either regard the UN as a credible or impartial body). As in the past, this is likely to come from a neighbouring state that both regard as relatively neutral - although that begs the question of who that will be, given the current climate.

 

[User removed 4]

There are some major differences between the conflicts. The major one being that the Turks and Greeks historically had their majorities at the opposite ends of the islands. So when it was partitioned and innocents were displaced, they were at least displaced to areas where there own kind had historically been the majority.

By contrast, Israel bullied and terrorised their way to the territory they now hold. Not only are there illegal settlements still being built on Arab land, but the Israelis also unilaterily decided that Jerusalem was theirs. And it was NEVER theirs to take - the UN declared it a protected city and not owned by either side, and Israel certainly has no more of a right to it than the Palestinians.

But the worst thing is, the status quo is maintained by western weaponry. You'd soon see the bullies running Israel head to the negotiating table if the USA and allies pulled the plug on this weaponry.

Spot on.

 

[symyjym]

Out of interest, what would you do if you had your lands stolen, were forced to live in a ghetto and were up against one of the best equipped and trained armed forces in the world ? Just say "yep, OK, I accept this" or fight back with what limited means you had ?

Whilst I sort of agree with your sentiment, lands have been stolen and divided for thousands of years.

If you look at the Kurds who have fought for their right to have a home and being stuck between the hostility of Turkey and Iraq now slowly making headway by being recognised. On that basis both Israel and Palestine have a right for their own land.

The biggest problem with Hamas is that they give Israel the excuse to fight back. If Hamas are firing ineffective rockets at Israel and then Israel retaliate, killing hundreds of civilians, destroying infrastructure and homes there is only one loser, with peace being further thwarted and a Palestinian state even more of a distant dream. It also gives Israel the opportunity to extend their settlement program so it plays into their hands.

Unfortunately land changes happen historically so the best thing the Palestinians can do is keep what they have got and put more effort into securing their Palestinian state peacefully. All these rockets do is make the west turn a blind eye to the settlement program and it does more harm than good so it is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So yes, sometimes to protect what you have already got it can be a good idea to go "yep, I accept this" rather than lose more, because this scenario is what happens in life on all levels.

I understand the Palastinian view but I also understand that if I was an Israeli, with wars going on all around them, that their country could be destroyed if they were weak.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

It's not about stones, or rockets, or missiles.

It's about occupation.

Trouble is that every country has been born out of some form of occupation. Israel / palestine / the holy land has always been occupied. The problem is how far you go back. 45 years 90 years etc. If the borders were redrawn, to when? The pre 70s, 1946, 1919 or the prior the Ottoman empire etc? It is sooo complicated and is not centered around language or heritage but religion. It looked to try and solve the problem of Jewish subjugation and prejudice by giving them an appropriate home land. This was not established with the consent of the Arabs and Israel was born from war and aggression, it has never moved away from this and nor have the displaced Arabs. Remember the Arab states refused to take the Palestinians as well, this left them stateless and angry, and they have never been in a position to change that thanks to no western support and the refusal of the other Arab states to take them. Israel is paranoid. This all adds up to no solution and perpetual war.

 

[London Irish]

Israel will always take the 'Eye For An Eye' stance. Hamas know that. Hamas are in effect killing Palestinian civilians by continuing to lob rockets at Israel.

Jesus what a crock of shit. Utterly brainwashed. Isreal target civilians (80 per cent is the going rate of civilian deaths in their attacks) and it's someone else's fault. Offensive bullshit

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Whilst I sort of agree with your sentiment, lands have been stolen and divided for thousands of years.

If you look at the Kurds who have fought for their right to have a home and being stuck between the hostility of Turkey and Iraq now slowly making headway by being recognised. On that basis both Israel and Palestine have a right for their own land.

The biggest problem with Hamas is that they give Israel the excuse to fight back. If Hamas are firing ineffective rockets at Israel and then Israel retaliate, killing hundreds of civilians, destroying infrastructure and homes there is only one loser, with peace being further thwarted and a Palestinian state even more of a distant dream. It also gives Israel the opportunity to extend their settlement program so it plays into their hands.

Unfortunately land changes happen historically so the best thing the Palestinians can do is keep what they have got and put more effort into securing their Palestinian state peacefully. All these rockets do is make the west turn a blind eye to the settlement program and it does more harm than good so it is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So yes, sometimes to protect what you have already got it can be a good idea to go "yep, I accept this" rather than lose more, because this scenario is what happens in life on all levels.

I understand the Palastinian view but I also understand that if I was an Israeli, with wars going on all around them, that their country could be destroyed if they were weak.

Likewise, I have some sympathy for your point of view. My main issue is that Israel wishes and claims to be a 21st century democratic country. Yet it decides to ignore UN resolutions and international law. It would have the moral high ground if this wasn't the case.

Instead it looks like a bully that really doesn't care if it murders civilians ( children and disabled people ), bulldozes peoples homes ( sometimes with people still in there ), builds on lands it isn't entitled to, carries out illegal murders in foreign lands while using documentation that implicates its allies, blockades essential materials and medicines from entering Gaza, uses banned weapons, forces people to live in a ghetto ( and if any country would understand how bad that was you'd think it was Israel ) and cocks the snot to anyone who dares question it.

When Iraq ignored UN resolutions for a few years we went to war - Israel has ignored resolutions for decades yet the UN sits on its hands while Israel continues with mass murder - or should that be extermination ?

 

[dingodan]

Trouble is that every country has been born out of some form of occupation. Israel / palestine / the holy land has always been occupied. The problem is how far you go back. 45 years 90 years etc. If the borders were redrawn, to when? The pre 70s, 1946, 1919 or the prior the Ottoman empire etc? It is sooo complicated and is not centered around language or heritage but religion. It looked to try and solve the problem of Jewish subjugation and prejudice by giving them an appropriate home land. This was not established with the consent of the Arabs and Israel was born from war and aggression, it has never moved away from this and nor have the displaced Arabs. Remember the Arab states refused to take the Palestinians as well, this left them stateless and angry, and they have never been in a position to change that thanks to no western support and the refusal of the other Arab states to take them. Israel is paranoid. This all adds up to no solution and perpetual war.

 

[dingodan]

Trouble is that every country has been born out of some form of occupation. Israel / palestine / the holy land has always been occupied. The problem is how far you go back. 45 years 90 years etc. If the borders were redrawn, to when? The pre 70s, 1946, 1919 or the prior the Ottoman empire etc? It is sooo complicated and is not centered around language or heritage but religion. It looked to try and solve the problem of Jewish subjugation and prejudice by giving them an appropriate home land. This was not established with the consent of the Arabs and Israel was born from war and aggression, it has never moved away from this and nor have the displaced Arabs. Remember the Arab states refused to take the Palestinians as well, this left them stateless and angry, and they have never been in a position to change that thanks to no western support and the refusal of the other Arab states to take them. Israel is paranoid. This all adds up to no solution and perpetual war.

There was a problem of Jewish subjugation and prejudice. It has been replaced by a problem of Arab subjugation and prejudice. Only you call it Arab statelessness and anger.

 

[fat old seagull]

I have no idea why I remember this but I do.

When I was around 7/8 years I remember my grandad watching the news and it was a story regarding Israel & Palestine

All I remember him saying was "them lot will never stop fighting each other" (mild version of the quote)

Seems he could be right.

Never been able to come to terms with the mentality of politicians that somehow consider killing your opponents will appease them. Perhaps the parties concerned might 'once again' sit down and talk, and both be prepared to compromise. Surely these people can fathom out that if you kill someone's Mum, Dad or Children they'll want to hurt you back. This would be a lovely planet...without humans, or at least cowardly politicians who fight wars from their sofas.

 

[symyjym]

Likewise, I have some sympathy for your point of view. My main issue is that Israel wishes and claims to be a 21st century democratic country. Yet it decides to ignore UN resolutions and international law. It would have the moral high ground if this wasn't the case.

Instead it looks like a bully that really doesn't care if it murders civilians ( children and disabled people ), bulldozes peoples homes ( sometimes with people still in there ), builds on lands it isn't entitled to, carries out illegal murders in foreign lands while using documentation that implicates its allies, blockades essential materials and medicines from entering Gaza, uses banned weapons, forces people to live in a ghetto ( and if any country would understand how bad that was you'd think it was Israel ) and cocks the snot to anyone who dares question it.

When Iraq ignored UN resolutions for a few years we went to war - Israel has ignored resolutions for decades yet the UN sits on its hands while Israel continues with mass murder - or should that be extermination ?

Yep I agree, but it is a vicious circle with those settlements. If the militant Palestinians had themselves took the peaceful line for the last 10-20 years, the UN would be in a better position to step in and protect them against potential settlement sites.

Unfortunately with the “Israel wishes and claims to be a 21st century democratic country” the West also claims to be advanced and civilized, but that didn’t stop us going against World objection to the invasion of Iraq, or Blair selling arms to Libya, or the West promoting the fall of Arab countries including Syria which has now come back to haunt us.

If the West cannot lead by example I don’t expect Israel to, and likewise as far as the other Middle East trouble, it is monkey see, monkey do, and also ignore the UN.

The way I see it is that we are all as bad as each other in that regard and we should actually start practicing what we preach.

 

[n0-sIs]

I've yet to see any evidence of all these rockets from gaza....probably flase flag so they can try out their new $3b of usa military funding (per year).

 

[Diego Napier]

It's easy from the comfort of peacetime Britain to criticise Israel, but their neighbours want them all dead, and if Israel hadn't taken the land away they'd have been invaded.

That's useful inside information; sauce? Or are you clairvoyant?

Which land are you talking about anyway? West Bank? East Bank? Golan Heights? Gaza Strip? Sinai Peninsula? Southern Lebanon?

I suspect that the International Court of Justice, United Nations Security Council and UN General Council take a slightly different view to you.

 

[n0-sIs]

If the West cannot lead by example I don’t expect Israel to

Can someone spot a difference between the west and israel? The west funds and supports them, and helps out with the propoganda.......because of Israeli's in high places.

It is all so very sad.......the UN said "hey, please can you stop" - and they just carry on bombing their open prison.