[Albion] Garcia's reasons for leaving (from today's Argus, per Andy Naylor)

[beorhthelm]

=
There's further intrigue here. If Burke + Poyet were good, and Garcia + Burke bad; but Barber + Poyet apparently bad, and Garcia + Barber good (if his statement is anything to go by), that means Barber + Burke = ?

42?

 

[saafend_seagull]

We ended up with three points less than last season but don't let that stop you suggesting Garcia underachieved with someone else's squad. Poyet signed the players he wanted and probably spent the budget that was supplied to get us to the Premier league leaving nothing for the incoming manager after Gus had failed to get us promoted. I'd love to see what Oscar could have achieved given the same ability to sign who he wanted.

There's a big difference in the quality of our performances though.

Our first 11 hasn't really been much weaker. Poyet only had upson and ulloa from January. Poyet had the Spanish players playing a lot better. Get the impression people were not either happy playing for Oscar or playing for Brighton.

The signing restriction also stopped poyet so can't be used as an excuse for Oscar too if you are comparing both.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Serious question - for those commenting on the budget - what are we supposed to do? Spend more than we can afford? I don't understand managers moaning about it, in the business world if an executive of a company sets up boundaries on funds or certain constraints then those below can't just just quit, you have to deal with it. We've spent 90 odd million on a training ground, 30 million or so on a training ground recently.

I heard the same as Bozza re: Oscar btw, apparently he wasn't interested in picking out a player and going and specifying specific players he was happy for Burke to do this & he was offered the title 'manager' after the Poyet case was dropped and he rejected it. I'm willing to bet Oscar has another job lined up, no source for that but this whole situation stinks of him wanting an easy get out clause.

I believe its more how the money is spent, not how much money is available. For example I'm sure we could have paid Barnes what he wanted, many on here (me included) would have been happy with that, and maybe Garcia wanted to, but the board wouldn't sanction it because they thought it was over-valuing him? So I'm sure that can lead to the manager moaning

 

[spring hall convert]

Well Burke must be doing something right, we've finished in a play off position two years running.

I think its players and managers who need to get real about money. The fact that we can't get anywhere near breaking even given our support and consumption is a pretty damning indictment of where second tier football is right now. Something has to change.

Absolutely, the fact that everyone is conveniently forgetting that we are still losing money!

The first priority has to be that the club gets on an even keel financially. There's no point in going up if we're already in debt doing it because then we have 2 options overspend more or be uncompetitive and pay off our accumulated debt. For instance, regardless of the income they generated last year I'd much rather be in our boat than Cardiff's.

The other key thing to remember is that parachute payments make this league inherantly unfair. The only way to counter that is to produce our own players.

 

[Tooting Gull]

There seems to be a body of opinion here who would happily have suppressed a true story that cut to the very heart of how the club was being run because of a play-off push.

You wouldn't expect me to agree with that, and I don't. Words like shit-stirring, being disloyal, negative, destabilising - all highly pejorative, and you can chuck them in the bin. It's the truth we're after, and what is really going on.

If people can't handle the truth, Jack Nicholson-stylee, and want to bury their heads in the sand, that is their problem and they need to deal with it.

IF the Argus knew as some on here have claimed (and it is IF despite those claims) they have to run that story of tensions and problems between such key figures at the club. Not to do so would have been a dereliction of duty.

And who knows, if it had all been out in the open months ago maybe people would have been embarrassed into changing things and this might not have happened.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

There seems to be a body of opinion here who would happily have suppressed a true story that cut to the very heart of how the club was being run because of a play-off push.

You wouldn't expect me to agree with that, and I don't. Words like shit-stirring, being disloyal, negative, destabilising - all highly pejorative, and you can chuck them in the bin. It's the truth we're after, and what is really going on.

.

Sorry - I should have put those words in inverted commas. I didn't suggest that's what the Argus' running of the story would have amounted to. I said that's what some would consider it to be, just as they did over the Jury's Inn case - a story that they simply HAD to run.

 

[Triggaaar]

 

[CheeseRolls]

I think this is obvious now with Lita and Obika what a waste of the player budget these two were.
We keep hearing that we did not have a great player budget, but we sure knew how to waste what we had if you include Agustein, Monakana, Rodriguez, Chickson Lita and Obika which all came out of this seasons budget, but contributed very little to the team.

It is an interesting list, especially if you acknowledge the many successes and take the reasonable view that player recruitment is necessarily fraught with risk.

Agustein - bought in to inject some passing urgency into the final third, delivered nothing. All sorts of misdemeanours get overlooked for the footballing gods, but for us mere mortals anyone with 39 driving points is at best unreliable and at worst a Grade A ********. His CV should have been filed from day one.

Monakana - Some people have been quite impressed with him, from what I have seen in the development games on Youtube, he is a tricky winger in the Seb Carole mould. What a bizarre time to recruit a winger with an attitude problem, especially one, who can get in the tricky winger queue, behind all of the other wide ball players we have. This one should have waited for the summer, when he could have been given a trial and the opportunity to prove he had the right attitude. Probably not a major outlay, but I am not sure I would like to be told, there is no money for big signings, but we can still find a few quid to sign this kid.

Rodriguez - Our lady friend in Barcelona, flagged up quickly this was not going to be a big signing for us and maybe that is the reality of our budget. Alternatively if we had spent this money and whatever we had to pay to bring in Lindegaard, could we have made one better signing at the end of January ?

Chicksen - The injury at the start of the season, robbed him of the opportunity to establish himself. When he did come in, I thought he did not look ready to step up. Based on his appearance at Derby, I think he could be one for next season, so maybe he will prove to be a good acquisition after all. Was Ward bought in because Chicksen wasn't ready, or because Maksimenko was not thought to be good enough as a back up ?

Lita - Whilst I am on Team Oscar on this point (I think Lita's better days are well behind him and his over all contribution is lacking) OG is open to the charge he did not give him a fair chance. However it also took far too long to bring him in. For weeks we were one injury/suspension away from a crisis.

Obika - From the moment he came on and screwed up a three on one position, by straying off side, it looked like we had bought in the new Junior McDougald. Maybe he needed more time to get match fit, after a long lay off. Came from a top team, had done well else where on loan, just one of those things for me.

 

[ees complicated no?]

Anyone would think this is new news!! I've been saying for god knows how long! Burke (and Barber) have to much say in the club, Gus got treated like like now the light has came out that OG didn't have a say either.

The way the team is ran by baffoons, it will no doubt stop us from getting a good manager or even players in the future!!!

 

[Napper]

When Poyet left , to get round legals we had to appoint a head coach and restructure .

Could all this be a result of that and can we go back to manager calling the shots ?

 

[fat old seagull]

No money for players but the club can afford to develop a hotel at the Amex?

I'm pretty certain he has got money, but to throw millions down the pan on players isn't Tony Bloom. The Hotel on the other hand will make him profit, lots I suspect.
I don't think any one of us has any right to condemn his expenditure toward BHA. So many supporters here must be so young they don't know, or so old they've forgotten the wilderness years following the Archer debacle.
As far as my following the club goes (over 60 years) I can most certainly say Tony Blooms investment, even if he doesn't spend another penny is the best thing that ever happened to this club. Let's be grateful.

 

[The Camel]

We seem to be moving into a Moneyball era whereby we buy players that are good value for what they offer. I imagine that if researched properly there are some very good players out there that are still under the radar for one reason or other.

This.

I think CMS was the last player bought under the traditional method of transfer dealings in the UK.

Admirable player in many ways, but was never really a good fit in Poyet's system and very unlikely to appreciate in value while he was at the AMEX.

He was bought because he scored loads of goals at Posh and was available at the right price.

I doubt there will ever be any signings like this again while Brighton are in the Championship.

Ulloa's value has increased massively and any big money signings in the future will be players like him, who have the potential to be worth far more.

 

[janee]

If we want to compete at a serious level, we need at least 18 top level players and some make weight. Our budget has limited us to 8/9 good level players and a load of rescue home donkeys. Steady play and a bit of luck has got us into the playoffs this season. If the idea is to make top ten each season and see where we go then we are in a good place. Ideas of premiership football with these budgets is a dream. Either way I am still in but the board need to back a big name manager with cash if they want the golden fleece.

But Burnley this year and Palarse last year did not have this

 

[Ernest]

Whoever is in charge of recruitment whether it is the new manager or Burke then they need to stop wasting the money they have on flimsy, injury prone players or ones who have attitude problems

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The AMEX stadium is of "Premiership Quality" AND this was bragged about when moving in. Its a stadium capable of hosting International matches due to its inside training/warm up areas. Now we have fantastic, quality training facilities that ALL the players are excited about. If this is not enough to show the intentions of the club, then I dont know what is? Not all championship clubs have a fraction of what Brighton now have, they have come a long way.

However, with the parachute payments now in place, unless a team gets out of the Championship - they will always struggle against those team that have experienced this.

With the financial strain and cost covering that needs to go on, staying inside the FFPs is very difficult. What will QPR do if they dont win the Play off final!? Oh I know, they will pay the leniant fine imposed and push for automatic promotion next season! Along with Norwich, Fulham, Wigan, Forest, Blackburn... The list goes on!

The Championship is becoming tougher and tougher to get out of. You cannot sit back and expect to build or a few more years before getting up! Thats not a positive or realistic way of looking at things. The fan base will drop! How much emptier has the stadium appeared this season? Crowd attendance is still high due to season ticket holders - That didnt make the matches! They will go, gate sales will go down.

With a few extra players - earlier in the season when Garcia wanted them - Brighton may have actually done better. The new training facility next season will help - but the manager in MUST use the development squad and have funds available to improve the squad straight away. On top of that - we need the core of our current squad to remain. That is the only way to push for Automatic promotion.

Otherwise, accept that you have a lovely stadium and are a Championship side at best! I dont think any fan will appreciate that - and it wont attract quality players. Youth players will go elsewhere as they want top tier football.

Its not rocket science but FFP seems to be holding the club back. The Club hierarchy needs to change and give the manager appointed more power, and ensure its a manager that will play passing possession football - else the club will come straight back down again!

Just my thoughts...

Please read FFP facts first before posting. QPR, if they miss promotion, will not be fined. If they fail FFP they will have a transfer embargo imposed on them. There are no exceptions, no contract extensions, improved existing contracts etc

 

[Triggaaar]

When Poyet left , to get round legals we had to appoint a head coach and restructure .

No we didn't. If we wanted a manager as before, we'd have had a manager, and possibly called him head coach. There's no way we'd have to change the behind the scenes work, as no one outside would know who makes the decisions anyway. Also, the legals ended before the January window, and it appears that Oscar was so disappointed with our January dealings that he wanted to leave.

I'm not against the idea of the club being highly involved in whom we recruit, as we'd like long term continuity even when managers change. But it does seem like they're not giving the manager enough say.

I said at the time, and still think, our worst decision was not offering Grabban enough.

 

[symyjym]

I'm pretty certain he has got money, but to throw millions down the pan on players isn't Tony Bloom. The Hotel on the other hand will make him profit, lots I suspect.
I don't think any one of us has any right to condemn his expenditure toward BHA. So many supporters here must be so young they don't know, or so old they've forgotten the wilderness years following the Archer debacle.
As far as my following the club goes (over 60 years) I can most certainly say Tony Blooms investment, even if he doesn't spend another penny is the best thing that ever happened to this club. Let's be grateful.

But you can buy players like Grabban for £1m and sell them for £3m +, I have said in this thread FFP is as much about making money than saving it. There is no point buying players that no one else wants, you have to buy players who will be well sought after later. Grabban was one of these and if Oscar rated him it would have been proper business with no questions asked.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Whoever is in charge of recruitment whether it is the new manager or Burke then they need to stop wasting the money they have on flimsy, injury prone players or ones who have attitude problems

New avatar ernesto

 

[ditchy]

I said at the time, and still think, our worst decision was not offering Grabban enough.[/QUOTE]

May not just be that we did not not offer him enough . More concerning is how long it took to offer and he then went back to Bournemouth

 

[Seagulltonian]

It is an interesting list, especially if you acknowledge the many successes and take the reasonable view that player recruitment is necessarily fraught with risk.

Agustein - bought in to inject some passing urgency into the final third, delivered nothing. All sorts of misdemeanours get overlooked for the footballing gods, but for us mere mortals anyone with 39 driving points is at best unreliable and at worst a Grade A ********. His CV should have been filed from day one.

But was back on the bench for the play-off game at Derby. How come? Did we have too many injuries, and he had to be on the bench, despite not being good enough or "wanting it" enough in the previous 2 months?

Monakana - Some people have been quite impressed with him, from what I have seen in the development games on Youtube, he is a tricky winger in the Seb Carole mould. What a bizarre time to recruit a winger with an attitude problem, especially one, who can get in the tricky winger queue, behind all of the other wide ball players we have. This one should have waited for the summer, when he could have been given a trial and the opportunity to prove he had the right attitude. Probably not a major outlay, but I am not sure I would like to be told, there is no money for big signings, but we can still find a few quid to sign this kid.

Been on loan at Crawley getting some experience, and playing pretty well by what i've heard. I think Crawley will be hoping we'll let him go back there from next season. We will probably let him go back, unless we are down to the bare bones of a squad.

Chicksen - The injury at the start of the season, robbed him of the opportunity to establish himself. When he did come in, I thought he did not look ready to step up. Based on his appearance at Derby, I think he could be one for next season, so maybe he will prove to be a good acquisition after all. Was Ward bought in because Chicksen wasn't ready, or because Maksimenko was not thought to be good enough as a back up ?

Pretty much agree with your summing up there. Played well against Reading in the Cup. One to keep close to the first team squad to bring in much quicker than some of the other youngsters, as I think he cost quite a few quid?

Rodriguez - Our lady friend in Barcelona, flagged up quickly this was not going to be a big signing for us and maybe that is the reality of our budget. Alternatively if we had spent this money and whatever we had to pay to bring in Lindegaard, could we have made one better signing at the end of January ?]Lita - Whilst I am on Team Oscar on this point (I think Lita's better days are well behind him and his over all contribution is lacking) OG is open to the charge he did not give him a fair chance. However it also took far too long to bring him in. For weeks we were one injury/suspension away from a crisis.

Obika - From the moment he came on and screwed up a three on one position, by straying off side, it looked like we had bought in the new Junior McDougald. Maybe he needed more time to get match fit, after a long lay off. Came from a top team, had done well else where on loan, just one of those things for me.

These three were pretty much disastrous signings, as we were hoping our "Goals For" total was going to increase when these blokes were playing. Most times when Lita and Obika came on, we still stuck to the one upfront system, and didn't try and be attacking and try a couple of strikers together, which I felt was totally unadventurous!! Who signed these three? I think two and were Burke's and one was Oscar's. At the end of the day, the budget was never going to get another striker signed, so it had to be loans, and cheap ones at that.

Hoping in the coming seasons, these new young players can step up and be the foundations for the future, and sprinkle with some experience, and you never know, the new manager might be able to mould a decent team together!