[News] Face Masks and Covid Passes to end in England from next Thursday

[Billy the Fish]

Okay then let's see your proof that those countries wouldn't have had a worse outbreak had they not bothered.

Look at the current stats for France and Israel. Both have strict rules about masks and both have much higher infection rates than the UK.
Let's assume masks make some sort of difference, I'll be generous and say a nice round 10% fewer infections. So France would peak at 440,000 cases a day instead of 400,000.

What's the point? Most of those people will just catch it the next week, or the week after, or the week after.

IMHO this isn't going away, after this wave there will be another variant or another Omicron wave.

Vaccinations are still the only way out.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

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I believe we saw the same numbers in July, real world shows it wasn’t anywhere near those numbers.

They ran a poll that had around 20 percent of people want night clubs closed for ever due to Covid.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Very noble of you. I seem to remember asking you what practical steps you have taken or could suggest to mitigate this problem but don't recall a reply. I'm sure there are plenty of people with hearing issues who also appreciate mass mask wearing in the fight to reduce infection, so what do you do for them?

It's not so much practical help that I can offer. All I am saying is that when we are deciding whether to remove the mask mandate, we need to consider the negative effect of masks on certain groups of people as well as the positive effects. Not, as some people including doctors seem to think, to ignore them on the grounds that their problems are not important. Just change the attitude from "we might as well keep on wearing masks because they do nobody any harm" to "we need to stop wearing masks when they harm they do outweighs the good".

 

[Mellotron]

As a virologist pointed out on the radio this morning, the rush to get rid of the measures is only likely to drag things on longer. Her reasoning was that if we waited a couple of months, it’s likely they’d be virtually no COVID circulating (providing no new variant emerges). Outbreaks would be relatively easy to identify and contain locally so for most of the time, most of us would actually be back to ‘normal’ with very little chance of coming into contact with the virus.

Instead, high rates of infection will persist and we’ll be stuck with the lottery of life as it is now.

I thought it was pretty much agreed by all epidemiologists that Covid is now endemic and the idea of “virtually no covid circulating” is highly, highly unlikely to happen?

Given how massively transmissible Omicron variant is, I don’t see how local outbreaks would be easily contained, we struggled to contain them with much higher levels of restrictions when it was a far less virulent variant! Nothing about her suggestion adds up imo.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's not so much practical help that I can offer. All I am saying is that when we are deciding whether to remove the mask mandate, we need to consider the negative effect of masks on certain groups of people as well as the positive effects. Not, as some people including doctors seem to think, to ignore them on the grounds that their problems are not important. Just change the attitude from "we might as well keep on wearing masks because they do nobody any harm" to "we need to stop wearing masks when they harm they do outweighs the good".

Did you ever come on NSC before Covid to discuss the needs of people with hearing problems ? Or is it like the people that hide behind mental health to justify their views. Just feels a bit exploitative to be using groups of people with particular needs in this way.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Did you ever come on NSC before Covid to discuss the needs of people with hearing problems ? Or is it like the people that hide behind mental health to justify their views. Just feels a bit exploitative to be using groups of people with particular needs in this way.

I didn't discuss the problems deaf people have with Covid before Covid existed, if that's what you're asking. Before Covid existed I was quite satisfied with the way my mother's deafness is looked after. I do not think my concerns for how my mother gets on with covid is "exploitative" of her.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I didn't discuss the problems deaf people have with Covid before Covid existed, if that's what you're asking. Before Covid existed I was quite satisfied with the way my mother's deafness is looked after. I do not think my concerns for how my mother gets on with covid is "exploitative" of her.

I’m sure it isn’t, but there are some quite unfamiliar voices who have suddenly acquired an interest in mental health.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I’m sure it isn’t, but there are some quite unfamiliar voices who have suddenly acquired an interest in mental health.

A bit (not a lot) like Tommy Robinson suddenly taking a massive interest in paedophilia when it involves Asian people, but not, say white people? That sort of thing?

It suits their narrative.

 

[crodonilson]

Hugely irresponsible ditching particularly the masks, given the variant we currently have is so transmissible with or without a vaccine not sure what huge difference that makes. This is still a pandemic and we should still be doing all we can to try and curb transmission where possible, and face masks are one of the things we can all do without having a significant social or economic impact.

 

[Napper]

A bit (not a lot) like Tommy Robinson suddenly taking a massive interest in paedophilia when it involves Asian people, but not, say white people? That sort of thing?

It suits their narrative.

Mental health much like cancer will pretty much effect everyone either directly or indirectly.

Thankfully paedophillia doesn't

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Mental health much like cancer will pretty much effect everyone either directly or indirectly.

Thankfully paedophillia doesn't

Thankfully yes.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think one issue with restrictions is that Plan B 'expires' on Jan 26th, so Boris would need to pass any extension through parliament for another vote - he's probably taken soundings (if they were even needed) that it'd be used as an opportunity to tell him what the party think by voting against it, which would make him look an even bigger arse regardless of the scientific whys and wherefores. .

From my perspective I don't think it would have done any harm to have masks mandated in closed setting for a bit longer, but the covid passes are pretty much a waste of time in preventing transmission (only real benefit now is making them mandatory might coerce a few more to get jabbed).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

A bit (not a lot) like Tommy Robinson suddenly taking a massive interest in paedophilia when it involves Asian people, but not, say white people? That sort of thing?

It suits their narrative.

Indeed. Very much like.

 

[Baldseagull]

Look at the current stats for France and Israel. Both have strict rules about masks and both have much higher infection rates than the UK.
Let's assume masks make some sort of difference, I'll be generous and say a nice round 10% fewer infections. So France would peak at 440,000 cases a day instead of 400,000.

What's the point? Most of those people will just catch it the next week, or the week after, or the week after.

IMHO this isn't going away, after this wave there will be another variant or another Omicron wave.

Vaccinations are still the only way out.

Flattening the peak out a bit is useful, so even in your somewhat pessimistic view that anyone that avoids infection this week will get it in the next few weeks, there is a benefit to the health service in being able to deal with the resultant percentage of bad cases.

Masks do have an effect in reducing transmission, and a 10% reduction is not a generous estimate.

 

[Bob!]

I think one issue with restrictions is that Plan B 'expires' on Jan 26th, so Boris would need to pass any extension through parliament for another vote - he's probably taken soundings (if they were even needed) that it'd be used as an opportunity to tell him what the party think by voting against it, which would make him look an even bigger arse regardless of the scientific whys and wherefores. .

From my perspective I don't think it would have done any harm to have masks mandated in closed setting for a bit longer, but the covid passes are pretty much a waste of time in preventing transmission (only real benefit now is making them mandatory might coerce a few more to get jabbed).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60076381

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has tweeted this morning to remind commuters that they will still need to wear them on the capital's transport.

"We cannot risk undoing all the hard we've done to stop this virus in its tracks. Please keep wearing your mask," he tweets.

Although masks won't be mandated across England, the government is still advising that they are a good idea in enclosed or crowded spaces.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid has said he'll continue to wear a mask while shopping, as there's still a high prevalence of the virus.


Is Javid distancing himself from Johnson, could it change if Johnson goes?

 

[portlock seagull]

Yesterday I enjoyed the guest doctor on Radio 2 rubbishing a caller who was citing all sorts of idiotic nonsense as gospel. I mean, who you going to believe: Stan, from Cleethorpes who can’t string an articulate sentence together; or the professionally qualified ‘celebrity’ GP who’s plugged into the WHO? So, after ‘Stan’ spoke it was a joy for her to respond calmly with “thank you, but that’s complete and absolute rubbish with no factual basis whatsoever!” Good for her, we shouldn’t mince our words for fear of offence - just call it as it is. Trouble is, ‘Stan’ and millions others are still convinced they’re right and the science community is wrong, a forty year career at top of medical profession can be trumped by an aunties conspiracy theory on Facebook.

This is why we must withhold treatment from those refusing the vaccine - we must seize the chance to clean up the gene pool!

 

[portlock seagull]

As a virologist pointed out on the radio this morning, the rush to get rid of the measures is only likely to drag things on longer. Her reasoning was that if we waited a couple of months, it’s likely they’d be virtually no COVID circulating (providing no new variant emerges). Outbreaks would be relatively easy to identify and contain locally so for most of the time, most of us would actually be back to ‘normal’ with very little chance of coming into contact with the virus.

Instead, high rates of infection will persist and we’ll be stuck with the lottery of life as it is now.

I think your last sentence is now where we’re at, whether politicians are too scared to say so or not.

People are tired of and indifferent about Covid now. Those of us who might succumb to will eventually and I count my self in this potential category too. Life is fragile, it can be wiped out in a second in numerous ways for all of us. Somehow in recent decades we’ve lost sight of this and tried to compensate, deny almost, by proportioning blame on someone else eg government, surgeons, scientists…anyone but ourselves and the genetic lottery that overwhelmingly determines our longevity; or not.

There but for the grace of god go I…

 

[dazzer6666]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-60076381

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has tweeted this morning to remind commuters that they will still need to wear them on the capital's transport.

"We cannot risk undoing all the hard we've done to stop this virus in its tracks. Please keep wearing your mask," he tweets.

Although masks won't be mandated across England, the government is still advising that they are a good idea in enclosed or crowded spaces.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid has said he'll continue to wear a mask while shopping, as there's still a high prevalence of the virus.


Is Javid distancing himself from Johnson, could it change if Johnson goes?

Possibly distancing himself but not sure it would change anything. Also a lot on Twitter from commuters telling Javid to **** off…….

 

[Lower West Stander]

I'm note sure what good it would do to keep them personally.

There has to be a point at which the decision to remove them is made and there will always be some out there arguing for longer. While we continue to be peppered with stats and diverse views from "experts" the argument will continue to be 2 way. There has to come a point where we all have to live with this as another illness we may get and vaccinations are now ready to all who want them.

NHS winter pressures are always there and hospital admissions drop off in any event as we get further into the year. We need to stop over focusing on Covid now and look at all the health backlogs its caused with people who have more severe illnesses (and a higher death chance) than Covid itself.

Otherwise we are just going to keep going round in circles.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

No. Time to get on with things