F***ing pissed off

[Southover Street Seagull]

But does it not seem odd to you, does it not start to ring alarm bells, that most of the references found to support the "kick Thatcher and the Tories" viewpoint are from the Guardian?

I'm not advocating one political standpoint over another, but the guardian is known for its left wing viewpoint as much as the Telegraph is known for it's right wing stand. Exactly the same events are spun to make entirely different stories in those papers.
Quoting from one only, in order to make a point is futile.

I wasn't having a go at Thatcher when I posted those links, even though I do not like her. I was trying to point out to Yorkie that there is evidence to support that there were/are social problems after the pits were closed. She stated that there were no greater social problems in closed pit villages/towns than there were in the rest of Britain. A viewpoint that I disagree with.
Did you actually read the articles because the second one talks about how things are getting better in the areas where mines were closed. It also quotes the professor from Sheffield University Steve Fothergill who has been studying this particular subject for years.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

But does it not seem odd to you, does it not start to ring alarm bells, that most of the references found to support the "kick Thatcher and the Tories" viewpoint are from the Guardian?

I'm not advocating one political standpoint over another, but the guardian is known for its left wing viewpoint as much as the Telegraph is known for it's right wing stand. Exactly the same events are spun to make entirely different stories in those papers.
Quoting from one only, in order to make a point is futile.

I have looked around and here are some more links that might make the viewpoint look more balanced:

http://www.shu.ac.uk/cresr/staff/s-forthergill.html

http://www.jrf.org.uk/knowledge/findings/housing/2046.asp

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/article1039858.ece

 

[m20gull]

It also quotes the professor from Sheffield University Steve Fothergill who has been studying this particular subject for years.

That doesn't necessarily make it any more unbiased. Professors have political opinions too and their research has to be funded. The spectacularly biased C4 programme on global warming was full of academics.

 

[Yorkie]

Funnily enough the middle link actually back up what I said.


The South Yorkshire coalfield is a large, relatively self-contained economic zone, whose economic fortunes have largely been determined by what has happened within its own boundaries. Job creation has been strong in recent years, and there is no evidence of any overall increase in commuting to neighbouring areas. Links with Sheffield do exist, but are not driving the overall pattern of change in the coalfield labour market. Established urban centres such as Barnsley, Doncaster and Rotherham act as important hubs, as do newer employment zones such as the Dearne Valley.

 

[sir albion]

Maggie is mainly a scapegoat for the loss of thousands of jobs

Times where moving on from coal etc,so you can't keep blaming the magster.

long live maggie thatcher

 

[Biscuit]

Just because you were not old enough to live through it doesn't mean you can't learn and debate about it properly with someone who did 'live it'...

 

[Yorkie]

Just because you were not old enough to live through it doesn't mean you can't learn and debate about it properly with someone who did 'live it'...

Debating is fine young Biccy. The third post on this thread was nothing like debate.

 

[Biscuit]

Point graciously accepted..

 

[binky]

Funnily enough the middle link actually back up what I said.

My work here is done

 

[seagurn]

Maggie was good for us we're still paying for it now.
The bitch

 

[Buzzer]

You obviously never grew up in the eighties when the Tories destroyed the country. Maggie Thatcher should have been hanged for what she did to British Industry.

the knee-jerk bollocks continues unabated. She even gets blamed for Irish industry.

Is there a little left-wing email reminder button that NSCers can select so that if politics is mentioned, left-wing nobbers can blame Thatcher for whatever it is?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

It always surprises me that people would 'hang' a politician.

Where would the money come from to prop up the Coal industry? Would you have been happy to pay your hard earned £s to support an industry htat was losing millions by the minute? Would you?

It is very easy to blame Thatcher and defend 1,000s of unemployed, but cola was finished. Has it made a comeback? Was Maggie right

At that time, we were importing coal from Ploand at a subsidised rate by the Polish Government. Our Government chose not to subsidise the Mining Industry any more and put a Canadian in charge of destroying it - Ian McGregor - he then destroyed the steel industry for good measure.

If the mines were allowed to compete on a level playing field, then we were just as competative as other coiuntries, but that didnt interest Thatcher in the slightest.

Now of course, we realise that actually the Oil is running out, the gas comes from politically de-stabalised nations and nuclear is too eco unfriendly....but all the mines have been shut. great long term thinking there thatch!

 

[Cian]

the knee-jerk bollocks continues unabated. She even gets blamed for Irish industry.

We're allowed blame her for that too?

Bitch closed our textile plants!

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

6 pages and not one BINFEST just political debate??


Pah

 

[Les Biehn]

Is there a little left-wing email reminder button that NSCers can select so that if politics is mentioned, left-wing nobbers can blame Thatcher for whatever it is?

We would have one if it wasn't for Thatcher

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Funnily enough the middle link actually back up what I said.


The South Yorkshire coalfield is a large, relatively self-contained economic zone, whose economic fortunes have largely been determined by what has happened within its own boundaries. Job creation has been strong in recent years, and there is no evidence of any overall increase in commuting to neighbouring areas. Links with Sheffield do exist, but are not driving the overall pattern of change in the coalfield labour market. Established urban centres such as Barnsley, Doncaster and Rotherham act as important hubs, as do newer employment zones such as the Dearne Valley.

This middle link does not back up what you said Yorkie, you said this in an earlier thread:

"What social problems? There weren't any worse social problems in the coal field areas than any other part of Britain.
As I have said before, those that didn't transfer to the Pontefract coalfield (the most modern one) took thousands in redundancy money. My own next door neighbour got employement within a month as a trainee manager with Victoria wine company.
My father in law worked for British Steel and lost three jobs in two years but still retired working for British Steel (so there were still jobs available in that industry - it just became far more streamlined and productive) at Templeborough."

If you look further down in the article that you quote as proving you correct is says this:

The Central Valleys coalfield remains a substantial economic zone in its own right, but new job creation has been relatively weak. In this context, Cardiff’s exceptionally strong employment growth in recent years has brought a rise in commuters from the coalfield. The Central Valleys have increasing connections with their neighbouring city, although the proportion of working-age residents travelling to jobs in Cardiff remains relatively small at just under 10 per cent. The growth in commuting is more a symptom of economic weakness in the Central Valleys themselves

So you are wrong to suggest as you did that "There weren't any worse social problems in the coal field areas than any other part of Britain."

This report backs that up.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

That doesn't necessarily make it any more unbiased. Professors have political opinions too and their research has to be funded. The spectacularly biased C4 programme on global warming was full of academics.

Yes that is true researchers get funding and can be politically biased. However and not wanting to dismiss Yorkie's valid points in this debate, I am inclined to believe an economics professor over her.
A professor who has done years of research in different coalfield areas in Britain I think has more knowledge about the social problems in all these areas, against Yorkie's one viewpoint on the South Yorkshire area.

 

[m20gull]

Yes that is true researchers get funding and can be politically biased. However and not wanting to dismiss Yorkie's valid points in this debate, I am inclined to believe an economics professor over her.
A professor who has done years of research in different coalfield areas in Britain I think has more knowledge about the social problems in all these areas, against Yorkie's one viewpoint on the South Yorkshire area.

I think they can both be right. One's personal experience can be very different from the experience of the population as a whole. There were undoutedly many people who did not suffer much from the pit closures but they must have been in a minority (that is my subjective opinion having never lived further north than Essex).

 

[m20gull]

... and nuclear is too eco unfriendly....but all the mines have been shut. great long term thinking there thatch!

Nuclear is not eco unfriendly, it's very clean most of the time, you just have to be very careful with it.

 

[Yorkie]

At that time, we were importing coal from Ploand at a subsidised rate by the Polish Government. Our Government chose not to subsidise the Mining Industry any more and put a Canadian in charge of destroying it - Ian McGregor - he then destroyed the steel industry for good measure.

If the mines were allowed to compete on a level playing field, then we were just as competative as other coiuntries, but that didnt interest Thatcher in the slightest.

Now of course, we realise that actually the Oil is running out, the gas comes from politically de-stabalised nations and nuclear is too eco unfriendly....but all the mines have been shut. great long term thinking there thatch!

You didn't read Ned's post on another thread about the steel industry. That is something he knows a lot about because his Dad worked in it for many years and Ned himself started off in it.
The steel production in this country is still at the same level as it was over 20 years ago but far more streamlined and less wasteful.

Southover St Seagull, as regards Wales may I refer you to Hitony's post. That is his personal experience.