Europe in/out you decide December 2014

[jakarta]

It's very odd isn't it that none of these countries apparently dominated by Germany want to leave the EU. Even those having the worst time. Do we in the UK know something they don't? I doubt it

We know we are not members of the Euro and therefore tied to Germanys Economic Policies for better (for Herr T) or worse (Greece/Italy/Spain et al).

 

[brighton fella]

It's very odd isn't it that none of these countries apparently dominated by Germany want to leave the EU. Even those having the worst time. Do we in the UK know something they don't? I doubt it

the majority of them do want to leave but the problem is their governing bodies like ours are brought people.
if UKIP didn't exist then they'd probably be saying the same thing about us.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

firstly, because being the 5th/6th economy in the world and 2nd/3rd in Europe, and a net importer of EU goods, its in their interests to do so. they would lose more than us if they didnt. secondly because the general move internationally is towards free trade.

You're just looking at one thing in isolation though. According to a very recent Deloiite report the UK is the "largest single-base for non-EU investment" and a very significant chunk comes to the UK because it's seen as eurozone-Gateway. It might well be the EU would like some or all of this investment so an easy way to stop it hitting the UK is to close the gateway. Sure Germany might want to shift a few cars but equally they might want their hands on a bigger prize. How much does Germany sell to the UK and how much is UK investment from non-EU countries worth is the question you need to be asking.

 

[beorhthelm]

You're just looking at one thing in isolation though.

yes, silly of me to focus on the most significant, fundemental reasons for the EU, the one always used first to defend our membership. we heard it all before about how not joining the Euro would see foreign investment disappear, yet its still there. methinks the foriegners invest where they are confident they'll see a return and get their money back, so we'd see investment regardless.

end of the day its not for giggles and weekends at Chequers that Merkel is pretty keen for us to stay on board.

 

[easynow]

In. With massive re-order in the system if possible.

 

[vegster]

In but with changes required.

 

[Hamilton]

In.

 

[nicko31]

Europe ain't perfect but the world is better a strong Europe, easily the most progressive continent on the planet

Immigration is an issue for the UK due to the numbers, but they don't come here to take benefits they come here to work and most work their butts off.

 

[brighton fella]

Europe ain't perfect but the world is better a strong Europe, easily the most progressive continent on the planet

Immigration is an issue for the UK due to the numbers, but they don't come here to take benefits they come here to work and most work their butts off.

keep bringing in more immigrants and create more jobs for them and don't worry about your own....its brilliant...and fantastic for the economy. !!! lets forget about our own because most are to thick to even realise and the other half are to engrossed in the Jeremy kyle show to even notice. after all it is highly fashionable in this global climate of ours to be multi cultural whilst neglecting the interests of your own.

 

[spence]

Europe ain't perfect but the world is better a strong Europe, easily the most progressive continent on the planet

Immigration is an issue for the UK due to the numbers, but they don't come here to take benefits they come here to work and most work their butts off.

How is Europe stronger? We have been in a recession for years. Some countries virtually bankrupt. Other economies seriously struggling and no sign of it ending.

 

[brighton fella]

How is Europe stronger? We have been in a recession for years. Some countries virtually bankrupt. Other economies seriously struggling and no sign of it ending.

and the debts will continue to accumulate all the time the EU keeps bailing out countries whilst the federal reserve bank and the ECB are forever milking the system.
the ECB pays interest on the amount of dollars it holds whilst the fed pay zilch on any euros it holds. transactions are done by computer on a spread sheet (in other words there is no real money available so instead fake money has to be printed) this make believe money is then distributed out to European banks who in turn require interest on its money it receives....consequently the tax payer bares the brunt by being made to pay both the loan and the 2 sets of interest. clever c*nts these bankers

 

[pastafarian]

there really should be an option

OUT Time we left -BUT THEN AFTER re negotiate our participation in Europe,on our terms,what the country wants and needs.and what the people are voicing concerns about.

The simple out vote doesnt tell the whole picture and the In but out/In with renegotiations is unworkable....The EU will never listen or take that as a serious standpoint.

Best to be Out and work the way in than In with the impossible task of getting out.

 

[cunning fergus]

You're just looking at one thing in isolation though. According to a very recent Deloiite report the UK is the "largest single-base for non-EU investment" and a very significant chunk comes to the UK because it's seen as eurozone-Gateway. It might well be the EU would like some or all of this investment so an easy way to stop it hitting the UK is to close the gateway. Sure Germany might want to shift a few cars but equally they might want their hands on a bigger prize. How much does Germany sell to the UK and how much is UK investment from non-EU countries worth is the question you need to be asking.

The truth and facts about investment on the ground are more complex, as always.

http://bankwatch.org/bwmail/54/asleep-wheel-ford-cuts-jobs-europe-eus-bank-delivers-ford-turkey

EU taxpayers are contributing to very institution that is using that money to supplement private investment from global business in initiatives that is destroying EU jobs, not creating them.

In this case the destruction of EU jobs by the EU itself was raised by the EU Parliament.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=WQ&reference=E-2012-011072&language=EN

Its hard to see what the benefits for EU workers and being in the EU are here.

Even harder to know who is accountable to the electorate for these decisions like this...............call me a cynic but I suspect that is a consequence of design rather than accident.

 

[GreersElbow]

Assuming what you have typed is correct, why didnt the UK get itself into a favourable position like Germany? That would have made sense would it not?

Because the EU was/is a federalist project, Germany being one of the more favourable towards federalism was favoured over Britain who were much more in favour of intergovernmental decision making.

Germany is also a sturdier economy than ours that's heavily reliant on Canary Wharf.

Germany has better relations with its neneighbours than we do

 

[GT49er]

In. With massive re-order in the system if possible.

In but with changes required.

.....and if the rest of the EU doesn't agree to the changes we want?

None of the glibly optimistic 'In but renegotiate' merchants seem keen (or able) to answer that question.

 

[daveinprague]

Quite surprised [MENTION=14574]daveinprague[/MENTION] has not popped up yet having a dig at UKIP.

They manage to look ridiculous most of the time without my help. They will manage. Dont worry.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

if they want to play childish little games like that then let em, it will only prove they weren't worth being with in the first place.

despite what the media will have you believe a country that imports far more than it exports does not need the likes of the EU for it to be able to stand on its own 2 feet...the customer always wins.

It's not a question of childishness. Nobody is going to negotiate a treaty under these circumstances unless it is to some extent in their interests, whether it be GB, the EU or Outer Mongolia.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

How is Europe stronger? We have been in a recession for years. Some countries virtually bankrupt. Other economies seriously struggling and no sign of it ending.

It isn't only about money and economics. A united Europe is far stronger in the eyes of other international players. We would become automatically less "relevant" to the USA idf we were not part of Europe.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

yes, silly of me to focus on the most significant, fundemental reasons for the EU, the one always used first to defend our membership. we heard it all before about how not joining the Euro would see foreign investment disappear, yet its still there. methinks the foriegners invest where they are confident they'll see a return and get their money back, so we'd see investment regardless.

end of the day its not for giggles and weekends at Chequers that Merkel is pretty keen for us to stay on board.

I wouldn't be so sure that Merkel is "pretty keen" for us to stay. If we "demand" that certain things change which Europe as a whole sees as unchangeable, they are not going to give.