Europe in/out you decide December 2014

[GreersElbow]

It'd be so frickin' awesome if it became a federal union, so yes please.

Joking aside, the EU is very engineered towards German interests. I just had to do a 2,500 essay on the euro-crisis, upon the research. You might aswell draw the conclusion it's the 4th reich.

ECB banned from QE because it's against the German constitution
Low interest rates, argued by Germany helped fuel the Irish housing bubble that burst bought the entire Irish economy on to its knees.
Competitiveness in the Eurozone has meant Greece had to utilise cheap money markets to stay afloat and try to modernise its infrastructure and then almost collapsed because of the credit crunch.

Germany benefitted the euro crisis, the economy is of course not doing too well. But nonetheless, since the crisis, Germany's unemployment rate has dropped with exports increasing due to a weakened euro.


If the EU continues to be dominated by Germany, then we should look at alternatives. However, we are still bound by what goes on in the EU. As they stupidly left out an exit mechanism/strategy, the idea of a country ditching the euro panics the EU. So perhaps, it could play out well for Britain to utilise this as leverage in negotiation. The reality is, weak Eurozone member states are shit scared of Germany. Proven at the 2010 Deauville Summit where Sarkozy and Merkel decided (against the ECB's advice, incredible that the ECB is ignored, again...) that they'll inject credit risk into the euro zone, which made financing for the weak Eurozone members much more expensive. They had no way of making their economies more competitive.


TL;DR. Must be circumstantial to the negotiations. If they don't go our way, we'll have to leave and hope others follow suit.

if they want to play childish little games like that then let em, it will only prove they weren't worth being with in the first place.

despite what the media will have you believe a country that imports far more than it exports does not need the likes of the EU for it to be able to stand on its own 2 feet...the customer always wins.

Does major industry players count as media or not? Because many have warned about leaving the EU. This argument that we'll be fine is an implied assumption that businesses will want to do business with a small island rather than a regional body. The benefits of trading with a regional body is cost, it's cheaper for businesses too because of universal EU regulations rather than 27 independent states.

 

[pb21]

Those voting for out how do you imagine your life being tangibly better as a result?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

if they want to play childish little games like that then let em.

Odd reply. You seem to think it's grown up for the UK to look after its own interests and leave, but when the EU do it they're being childish.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It'd be so frickin' awesome if it became a federal union, so yes please.

Joking aside, the EU is very engineered towards German interests. I just had to do a 2,500 essay on the euro-crisis, upon the research. You might aswell draw the conclusion it's the 4th reich.

ECB banned from QE because it's against the German constitution
Low interest rates, argued by Germany helped fuel the Irish housing bubble that burst bought the entire Irish economy on to its knees.
Competitiveness in the Eurozone has meant Greece had to utilise cheap money markets to stay afloat and try to modernise its infrastructure and then almost collapsed because of the credit crunch.

Germany benefitted the euro crisis, the economy is of course not doing too well. But nonetheless, since the crisis, Germany's unemployment rate has dropped with exports increasing due to a weakened euro.


If the EU continues to be dominated by Germany, then we should look at alternatives. However, we are still bound by what goes on in the EU. As they stupidly left out an exit mechanism/strategy, the idea of a country ditching the euro panics the EU. So perhaps, it could play out well for Britain to utilise this as leverage in negotiation. The reality is, weak Eurozone member states are shit scared of Germany. Proven at the 2010 Deauville Summit where Sarkozy and Merkel decided (against the ECB's advice, incredible that the ECB is ignored, again...) that they'll inject credit risk into the euro zone, which made financing for the weak Eurozone members much more expensive. They had no way of making their economies more competitive.


TL;DR. Must be circumstantial to the negotiations. If they don't go our way, we'll have to leave and hope others follow suit.

Does major industry players count as media or not? Because many have warned about leaving the EU. This argument that we'll be fine is an implied assumption that businesses will want to do business with a small island rather than a regional body. The benefits of trading with a regional body is cost, it's cheaper for businesses too because of universal EU regulations rather than 27 independent states.

Assuming what you have typed is correct, why didnt the UK get itself into a favourable position like Germany? That would have made sense would it not?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

If the EU decides it is in their best interests to not negotiate any trade agreements with a particular country why would this be unreasonable?

Do you think that if Scotland had voted for independence and the English then refused to trade with them that it would be reasonable behaviour on our part?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do you think that if Scotland had voted for independence and the English then refused to trade with them that it would be reasonable behaviour on our part?

It depends on what grounds. If the UK decided it was not in their interests to trade xxxx with Scotland, and had good reason to do so, then fair enough.

 

[brighton fella]

It'd be so frickin' awesome if it became a federal union, so yes please.

Joking aside, the EU is very engineered towards German interests. I just had to do a 2,500 essay on the euro-crisis, upon the research. You might aswell draw the conclusion it's the 4th reich.

ECB banned from QE because it's against the German constitution
Low interest rates, argued by Germany helped fuel the Irish housing bubble that burst bought the entire Irish economy on to its knees.
Competitiveness in the Eurozone has meant Greece had to utilise cheap money markets to stay afloat and try to modernise its infrastructure and then almost collapsed because of the credit crunch.

Germany benefitted the euro crisis, the economy is of course not doing too well. But nonetheless, since the crisis, Germany's unemployment rate has dropped with exports increasing due to a weakened euro.


If the EU continues to be dominated by Germany, then we should look at alternatives. However, we are still bound by what goes on in the EU. As they stupidly left out an exit mechanism/strategy, the idea of a country ditching the euro panics the EU. So perhaps, it could play out well for Britain to utilise this as leverage in negotiation. The reality is, weak Eurozone member states are shit scared of Germany. Proven at the 2010 Deauville Summit where Sarkozy and Merkel decided (against the ECB's advice, incredible that the ECB is ignored, again...) that they'll inject credit risk into the euro zone, which made financing for the weak Eurozone members much more expensive. They had no way of making their economies more competitive.


TL;DR. Must be circumstantial to the negotiations. If they don't go our way, we'll have to leave and hope others follow suit.

Does major industry players count as media or not? Because many have warned about leaving the EU. This argument that we'll be fine is an implied assumption that businesses will want to do business with a small island rather than a regional body. The benefits of trading with a regional body is cost, it's cheaper for businesses too because of universal EU regulations rather than 27 independent states.

what have we got to loose by opting out anyway when the whole thing is already falling apart at its seems. german bully boy tactics wont go on forever and one by one you'll see other nations taking the same route as we do.
businesses will carry on regardless and reach a deal that suits them and not a deal that has been enforced by some dictator, some businesses will prosper some wont and those who don't will learn to adapt, it worked well enough before so there is no reason to suggest it wouldn't now, many assume that the EU is a source of comfort blanket and without it we would be unable to trade globally...its all hear say and scaremongering.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

In but renegotiate.

We will enter a world of **** if we leave....a mass exodus may also follow.

 

[GT49er]

A genuine question for all who are going for 'In, but renegotiate'.

Where do you stand if the renegotiations are unsuccessful (or just all smoke and mirrors like DC's recent 'renegotiation' of that extra payment we had to make because our economy is (allegedly) doing well?)

 

[brighton fella]

Odd reply. You seem to think it's grown up for the UK to look after its own interests and leave, but when the EU do it they're being childish.

since when has leaving the EU become childish ? if you join a club of any description does that then mean your bound to it for life, so going by your reckoning means if a footballer decides to quit his club he is being childish ................really ?
I don't know about anyone else but I make you the odd one

 

[jakarta]

I do love this 'isolated little island' argument.

The UK is the Worlds 6th Largest Economy and doing far better than the EU on the whole.

However for reasons of spite the EU would refuse to import from us or export their products because we were no longer 'in their club'.

I can just see Merkel ordering the BMW Board to stop exporting their cars to the UK......

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

In, but renegotiate.

Too many jobs depend on the EU for us to leave.

 

[zxtwinturbo]

In, but renegotiate.

Too many jobs depend on the EU for us to leave.

Renegotiating is just not going to happen,merkel says jump the rest of Europe says how high,Just why did we fight 2 world wars again??.To stop a facist,undemocratic superstate!

 

[seagull_in_malaysia]

What makes you think the EU will arrange import/export treaties?

A lot of countries in the EU would be seriously pissed off if they didn't. For example almost 10% of Denmark's exports go to the UK.

 

[beorhthelm]

What makes you think the EU will arrange import/export treaties?

firstly, because being the 5th/6th economy in the world and 2nd/3rd in Europe, and a net importer of EU goods, its in their interests to do so. they would lose more than us if they didnt. secondly because the general move internationally is towards free trade.

 

[GT49er]

In, but renegotiate.

Too many jobs depend on the EU for us to leave.

Then what do you do if satisfactory terms cannot be negotiated? No guarantees out there that Merkel and co. will accede to our demands.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It depends on what grounds. If the UK decided it was not in their interests to trade xxxx with Scotland, and had good reason to do so, then fair enough.

But we all know on which hypothetical grounds the eu wouldn't trade with us on. Those grounds are quite frankly ridiculous and you do yourself no service by the initial comment about the possibility of the EU not choosing to trade with us.

The only possible reasons they'd have would be churlish and reactionary, surely the institution that you are so fond of would not be like that?

We are a friendly nation that wishes to trade. We are hardly pariahs like Russia.

 

[brighton fella]

the EU wont renegotiate under any terms and that is a 100% CAST IRON FACT so to believe they will is wishful thinking and frankly very naïve.
what evidence is there to suggest they will when there is plenty of evidence suggesting they wont.??
"EVEN IF"renegotiations were to be nicely laid on the table..it wont happen but lets just say for the optimists out there that it does..then who's to say we should suddenly put our trust in the EU ?

there is no point continuing the debate if this simple question cant be answered.

 

[sahel]

Assuming what you have typed is correct, why didnt the UK get itself into a favourable position like Germany? That would have made sense would it not?

It's very odd isn't it that none of these countries apparently dominated by Germany want to leave the EU. Even those having the worst time. Do we in the UK know something they don't? I doubt it

 

[beorhthelm]

It's very odd isn't it that none of these countries apparently dominated by Germany want to leave the EU. Even those having the worst time.

except of course the last EU elections had large votes for anti-EU parties. even the Germans voted some substantial number for an anti-Euro party. however, on the whole the other european nations are net beneficiaries so quietly accept German domination. its not much different to the Franco-German domination they signed up to in the first place.