[Food] Eating less meat & dairy.

[midnight_rendezvous]

Indeed - let's hope with are both in fine fettle in ten years to keep on debating and finding fresh evidence.. It is good that we can discuss this rationally without getting personal or aggressive. Of course, if one of you or I drop dead tomorrow while the other thrives until 95 it still does not prove that one diet or the other is better. We would have to see how each of us would have done on the other diet in a parallel universe, and there could still be confounding factors.

Anyway, regarding the Joe Rogan interview and debate, please take a look at Chris Kresser's thoughts afterwards here - https://chriskresser.com/reflections-on-the-game-changers-debate/, plus this from Paul Saladino MD - https://www.peak-human.com/post/did...t-against-chris-kresser-with-paul-saladino-md. It is not so clear that Wilks actually won on fair debating and facts.

Finally, if you don't fancy Chris Kresser as a source of legitimate info please try Dr Ben Bikman, who has a lot to say (with evidence) on the damage of insulin resistance and how low carb is the best way to tackle it.

All the best.

Most definitely. A far cry from the utter nonsense in the post a few above your own… Let’s hope that neither of us meet with an untimely demise

The problem for me re Kresser is this; Kresser may be considered a reputable source in the keto/ paleo world, but he is a licensed acupuncturist and practitioner of “integrative and functional medicine”, so in other words, ‘alternative’ medicine. So, for me, he doesn’t provide enough credibility or a compelling enough argument to convince me to reconsider the works of notable physicians and cardiologists like, Dr Neal Bernard, Dr Michael Gregor, Dr. Joel Kahn (to name but a few). Or health organisations such as The WHO, The American Dietetic Association and the British Dietetic Association and 21 international health organisations. Or notable studies like The China Study. Or The Eat-Lancet Commission on food. Or The 2019 ACC/AHA Guideline on the Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease. Or The Michael A Clark et al study on The best diet for human and planetary health.

I will check out what Dr Bikman has to say on the subject though The more you know and all that

 

[The Clamp]

Usually only eat meat when I dine out in a decent place these days, which isn’t that often. I like fish or Quorn .
I take milk in tea. I’ve dropped cheese from my diet except for Boxing Day. It’s just so unbelievably bad for you.

 

[The Clamp]

Meat or no meat. Dairy or no dairy. The best thing we can do for ourselves is not eat processed food. Fresh veg, fruit, quality whole meats, pulses, salads, seeds, beans etc. Are cheap and easy to come by. Except for meat, which should be expensive, something gave its life for that meal.
Bit of olive oil and some lemon juice instead of fatty dressings for salads.
Health improves, skin looks better.. benefits are manifold. I’ve been trying to eat this way for a couple of years now and I genuinely enjoy it. The odd treat here and there but generally I find it easy to stick to.

 

[m@goo]

My wife and 2 daughters are veggie/vegan so whilst I do have meat sometimes, I mostly eat veggie too. We usually use vegetables instead of meat substitutes . Red Peppers and Aubergines are particularly tasty in stir-fry, cauliflower, potatoes and lentils in curry and beans in chillis. Roasted squash, especially crown prince stuffed with mushrooms, leeks/ peppers and vegan haggis is brilliant in winter, as are oven roasted vegetable with garlic and herbs. Quick cheap and very tasty. Get a good recipe book, like Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall.

But there are times when its handy to pop in a frozen Linda Mccartney sausage or three with your Jacket spud and their vegan Hoisin Duck is brilliant in a wrap with red peppers mushrooms and spring onions. Tasty and super quick.

I also buy vegan mince (Tesco, Linda McCartney, Waitrose, Morrisons) which is great in chilli and shepards pies. Homemade sausage rolls are fabulous. Mix any veg sausages with loads of diced apple, sage, rosemary, black pepper or chill if brave and roll into pastry, either homemade to Delia Smiths recipe (but no lard or butter).

Cook and serve warm with red current or cranberry jelly and its a real treat. Prefect for parties/ mates round (remember those days) and 6 sausages ( about £2) goes a very long way.

Enjoy.

Thanks! I have to admit, I'm a very reluctant cook mostly because I'm single and can't be arsed so I tend to grab things that I can bung in the oven or microwave.

 

[Nitram]

Not had it myself but my daughter says Seitan chicken, vegan, is a great substitute and as good as normal chicken.

For OP
I asked her which one she liked and she said it was from Waitrose, they do a good range https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/...n-2020-with-over-30-new-plant-based-products/

In particular the chicken one she really likes, and so does her meat eating partner, is

https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-vegan-no-chicken-crispy-slices/876982-712841-712842

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I just ordered this from uber eats. By far the best fake chicken burger I've found, the fake wings/ribs were great too

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[Elbow750]

Thanks! I have to admit, I'm a very reluctant cook mostly because I'm single and can't be arsed so I tend to grab things that I can bung in the oven or microwave.

Start with the sausage rolls when you have some mates around. Use ready made pastry and its a doodle. Oh and some nice mustard too.

 

[Norman Potting]

Thanks! I have to admit, I'm a very reluctant cook mostly because I'm single and can't be arsed so I tend to grab things that I can bung in the oven or microwave.

Sounds remarkably like our household - one omnivore (me), two vegans and a veggie. I am eating a lot less meat than I used to and as the main cook (daughters do help a lot) enjoy trying new recipes. Lots of good BBC recipes, staples are their lentil based Bolognese sauce which can be adapted for chilli and a magnificently tasty vegetable fajita all without a hint of animal derived product. Sunday roast tomorrow with vegan Yorkshire pud and vegan and veggie pies. Nice bit of definitely non Vegan topside with mine!

(Sorry, makes more sense if read as as the reply to #84, )

 

[Seagull27]

Mostly what this comes down to, is that people who don't like people eating meat (animal rights protestors and the like) try to hide their true reason for trying to "convert" other people to vegetarianism.

They'll hide it behind other more palatable (forgive the pun) reasons, such as health benefits - many of which are dubious - and the new, most fashionable one, "the climate". People like feeling they aren't part of the problem with the environment, right? Let's play to their ego to get them to stop doing the thing we don't like.

The truth is that vegans and the kind of people who'd have a plant based burger have an issue with eating meat. They don't like eating the flesh of animals and expect everyone else to feel the same.

Unlike most opinions or choices based on moral choice or personal preference, these people are most insistent and vocal about how they are right and you are wrong

It's about, to catch the current zeitgeist, "optics". Animal rights folks have gotten a bit smarter. They realise that being a greasy, unwashed, unemployed freak lving in a treehouse wearing hemp underpants is not "good optics" for the cause. You'll attract the other nutters, sure, but not middle class middle England.

Oh, but alleged health benefits - saving the planet? That works a lot better than "ANIMALS ARE OUR FRIENDS" to the average person.

I don't think this is entirely fair, personally while I care about animal rights, it's never been enough to impact whether I eat meat or not, as long as it's relatively humanely kept/killed. But evidence behind the link between animal agriculture and climate change has led me to cut my meat consumption by about half, and I believe it's the driving factor for a lot of people doing the same rather than being some hippy protestors and the like.

Simply put, if the majority of the population were willing to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) meat intake, the planet would be in a much better place. So I don't think it's fair to label people campaigning for this issue as being hardcore vegan activists.

As for the subject of this thread, I've found seitan chicken to be an excellent substitute for stir fries, as well as tempeh - both have a nice texture that is missing in a lot of other meat substitutes, and with a flavoured sauce you don't miss the taste of the chicken really. And Vivera bacon strips (not rashers,more like lardons) are very close to the real thing, in both taste and texture, for things like carbonara or as a pizza topping

 

[dsr-burnley]

You say soy is bad for your health and animal fat is good in the same breath. Brave move considering consuming animal products has been linked to our top diseases and illnesses. Heart disease, type-2 diabetes, many forms of cancer, strokes, hypertension, dementia and osteoporosis. What evidence is there that the consumption of soy is bad for you? And have you told Asia?

Food intake is only a minor part of the reason those diseases are increasing. The biggest reason those conditions are increasing, is time. What's the main reason for getting dementia? Growing old. What's the main reason for heart disease? Growing old. What's the main reason why cancer deaths are increasing? People are growing old enough to get it. We have to die of something, and if it wasn't any of these things, what would it be?

 

[dsr-burnley]

You may want to ask the question why do we have prevalence of heart disease, cancers, type-2 diabetes in the west now? When people were eating more animal fats (things like dripping/lard are actually good to eat) they were healthier. People now eat over-processed foods.

They may have been healthier, but they died younger as well. Whether that was as a result of better health, I have my doubts.

Even 50 years ago, 80 was an old, old age. Not now. It's not just increased health care; all these extra calories we are eating are doing us some good.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Food intake is only a minor part of the reason those diseases are increasing. The biggest reason those conditions are increasing, is time. What's the main reason for getting dementia? Growing old. What's the main reason for heart disease? Growing old. What's the main reason why cancer deaths are increasing? People are growing old enough to get it. We have to die of something, and if it wasn't any of these things, what would it be?

I am tired of repeating myself. Unless you are a medical professional or have significant evidence to back this up, it is just your opinion. And you’ll forgive me if I take the medically and scientifically backed opinions from the medical practitioners, health organisations and studies (that I have linked previously this thread) over your own. You are welcome to read and view the aforementioned sources at your leisure. Enjoy

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Sounds remarkably like our household - one omnivore (me), two vegans and a veggie. I am eating a lot less meat than I used to and as the main cook (daughters do help a lot) enjoy trying new recipes. Lots of good BBC recipes, staples are their lentil based Bolognese sauce which can be adapted for chilli and a magnificently tasty vegetable fajita all without a hint of animal derived product. Sunday roast tomorrow with vegan Yorkshire pud and vegan and veggie pies. Nice bit of definitely non Vegan topside with mine!

(Sorry, makes more sense if read as as the reply to #84, )

A roast is the only meal I haven't been able to substitute the meat for

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[Falmer Wizard]

I’ve never understood this line of thought. Why should the actions of China, India and the US influence your decisions? And, in reference to quote in bold, I don’t know whether to correct you or simply feel sorry for you

i had not realised that you hadn't heard that the three countries listed care nothing for improving the climate so no point for us in giving up very enjoyable meals until they do,SIMPLE!!!

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

i had not realised that you hadn't heard that the three countries listed care nothing for improving the climate so no point for us in giving up very enjoyable meals until they do,SIMPLE!!!

And yet animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, habitat loss, water pollution, species extinction and ocean dead zones. But, whilst it is unfair to put the burden of climate change solely on individuals, many would argue that individual responsibility is essential to solving the climate crisis. You may think that one person’s dietary choices don’t make a difference, but a year on a plant based diet is estimated to save; 1,519,823 litres of water, 6,607kg of grain, 1,022 SQM of forest, 3,322 KG of CO2 and 365 animal lives.

 

[cloud]

Quiches by Higgidy https://www.higgidy.co.uk/our-food/?food-type=quiches
Pasta with pesto
Veg curry / dhal / chana masala with rice
Farinata https://www.asmallkitcheningenoa.com/farinata-genoa-chickpea-tart/
Spaghetti alla puttana (without the anchovies) https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/international/european/italian/pasta-puttanesca-tarts-spaghetti
Omelette or spanish omelette with eg mushrooms
Tortellini with veg filling

 

[Lower West Stander]

And yet animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, habitat loss, water pollution, species extinction and ocean dead zones. But, whilst it is unfair to put the burden of climate change solely on individuals, many would argue that individual responsibility is essential to solving the climate crisis. You may think that one person’s dietary choices don’t make a difference, but a year on a plant based diet is estimated to save; 1,519,823 litres of water, 6,607kg of grain, 1,022 SQM of forest, 3,322 KG of CO2 and 365 animal lives.

I’ll remember that when I’m tucking in to my burger from Five Guys. Just opened up the road from me [emoji106]


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[midnight_rendezvous]

I’ll remember that when I’m tucking in to my burger from Five Guys. Just opened up the road from me [emoji106]


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Cool story bro

 

[Lower West Stander]

Cool story bro

How do you know I’m a bro?


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[m@goo]

i had not realised that you hadn't heard that the three countries listed care nothing for improving the climate so no point for us in giving up very enjoyable meals until they do,SIMPLE!!!

I did say in my original post if you don't agree with eating less meat and dairy you don't need to say anything. You're argument is backwards and plain wrong.