[Politics] Donald Trump 2024

[Lenny Rider]

This is a great cover of CoP.



I’ve heard the mantra preached, many times, on why Americans love Trump. Those that adore the Orange Blob do so because he is ‘like’ them it’s frequently claimed.

1. Loud.
2. Overweight.
3. Obnoxious
4. Arrogant
5. Narcissistic
6. Dishonest
Etc

But electable?

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is a great cover of CoP.



I’ve heard the mantra preached, many times, on why Americans love Trump. Those that adore the Orange Blob do so because he is ‘like’ them it’s frequently claimed.

1. Loud.
2. Overweight.
3. Obnoxious
4. Arrogant
5. Narcissistic
6. Dishonest
Etc

Well at least Britain wouldn't be stupid enough to vote for a loud, overweight, arrogant, narcissistic liar ................... Oh

 

[herecomesaregular]

Whenever you (or others) post the HILARIOUS term "TDS" it makes me think of this.



What will Trump have to do, beyond all the stupid, harmful and offensive things he's done to date, for you to stop believing in him?

Not their best song but I used to love this band in the early 90s. I have a signed copy of a Time's Up promo.

 

[Zeberdi]

Let’s not kid ourselves that Trump’s rise to power is all about cult of personality- the Republican Party has moved further to the right in recent years than the Dems have moved to the left - the alternatives to Trump (eg Ron DeSantis ) would have been even worse on a policy basis. Moderates and less religious zealots have left the Party leaving the GOP radicalised by fundamentalist and hard right nationalists - it is lazy thinking to suggest this election‘s priorities are all about keeping Trump out - it masks the heinous beast that the Republican Party has now become, Trump or not and how it is being increasingly influenced by politicians like Mark Robinson:

Far-right candidates see Super Tuesday wins at traditional Republicans’ expense

Highest-profile victory goes to Mark Robinson, a Hitler-quoting anti-abortion extremist who will now run for North Carolina governor

www.theguardian.com

America is so polarised and entrenched in hate that Jan 6 may just have been a warning of worse to come - Trump posting a video of a photo of Biden hogtied at the back of a puck-up has caused ‘outrage’ as did Comedy artist, Kathy Griffin’s stand up stunt holding an image of Trump’s head - both horrible and violent expressions from opposite sides of the political canyon dividing America:

 

[Seagull58]

Nutshell. Laughable that Americans consider Democrats as Socialist. wtf. Has there ever been a nation more paranoid about any governance?

But capping the price of insulin at $35 so those damned diabetics can avoid diabetic coma and death is, surely, socialism in its most virulent form and must be eradicated (along with the "perfidious jews").

*this may be an attempt at satire.

 

[Seagull58]

American elections have always been about voting for the ‘man’ not the Party - cult of personality goes hand in hand with electing a POTUS - not so much in British politics except perhaps Tony Blair and BoJo both leaders in recent years, very much voted in on what personal attributes they’ve sold to the electorate IMO. Bizarrely, not being the ‘right’ personality (and thus electability) seems to have more impact in internal leadership elections in British politics than it does in American politics where they seem not to care how much electability a candidate has.

However, let’s not kid ourselves that Trump’s rise to power is all about cult of personality- the Republican Party has moved further to the right in recent years than the Dems have moved to the left - the alternatives to Trump (eg Ron DeSantis ) would have been even worse on a policy basis. Moderates and less religious zealots have left the Party leaving the GOP radicalised by fundamentalist and hard right nationalists - it is lazy thinking to suggest this election‘s priorities are all about keeping Trump out - it masks the heinous beast that the Republican Party has now become, Trump or not and how it is being increasingly influenced by politicians like Mark Robinson:

Far-right candidates see Super Tuesday wins at traditional Republicans’ expense

Highest-profile victory goes to Mark Robinson, a Hitler-quoting anti-abortion extremist who will now run for North Carolina governor

www.theguardian.com

The GOP is, to an extent but not as yet completely, controlled by Christofascists. Even more worryingly, so is the SCOTUS. Even more worryingly still, the SCOTUS contains corrupt Christofascists who have been appointed for life. Despite very clear evidence of Thomas's corruption over more than 20 years (and recent evidence that Allito is also "dirty") there is no clear path to remove them.

 

[chickens]

It’s really not that complicated, just idealogical. Trump may be a bad man, but I also believe Biden (or whoever is running him) is a bad man. Which brings up another serious question, we don’t really know who is, do we? It is obvious he no longer has the mental acuity to be the leader of the “free world”, in which case why would someone even consider voting for him?

I would argue that if your reason for not voting Biden is his mental acuity, you can’t seriously consider voting for Trump. Who’s running him?

I know that people think the Republican Party has gone far right, but I also believe the Democrat Party is now far left, socialist even. I just want to live my life as freely as possible, with as little government interference as possible, nothing more, nothing less. I want nothing to do with Socialism, and that’s where the democrats are taking us. If I voice an opinion, or post something from a conservative site, I just get told my opinions are worthless as the source is untrustworthy. You can’t have a debate when people aren’t interested in the other side of the story.

This shows a high degree of political naivety. The Democrats are a centre-right party who are roughly equivalent to what the Conservative Party used to be here in Britain, although the current Conservative Party has moved to the right of them. Nowhere have the Democrats tried to end private ownership or curb the progress of business. They have correctly identified that trickle down economics is bullshit, and are suggesting that organisations pay their workers enough to live, but that’s still a capitalist move, as skint people can’t spend.

Republicans talk the talk of small government, but have never delivered on their talk, regardless of who’s leading them.

The simple fact of the matter is that all legislation must be enforced, which then requires an increase in the number of Civil Servants required. So for each civil or technological advancement that can potentially be misused, laws and regulations must come into place to deal with them. A functioning government can only grow as its society does.

Sensible individuals accept this as the cost of doing business and chip in their tax dollars, there’s always a few (in America a lot) who consider all tax theft.

They say this as kings of their domains, but they’d be the first to cry when a bigger boy came along and took what they considered theirs, if there wasn’t enforceable legislation there to protect them.

I can promise you that America has never even flirted with a socialist idea.

 

[Machiavelli]

I would argue that if your reason for not voting Biden is his mental acuity, you can’t seriously consider voting for Trump. Who’s running him?


This shows a high degree of political naivety. The Democrats are a centre-right party who are roughly equivalent to what the Conservative Party used to be here in Britain, although the current Conservative Party has moved to the right of them. Nowhere have the Democrats tried to end private ownership or curb the progress of business. They have correctly identified that trickle down economics is bullshit, and are suggesting that organisations pay their workers enough to live, but that’s still a capitalist move, as skint people can’t spend.

Republicans talk the talk of small government, but have never delivered on their talk, regardless of who’s leading them.

The simple fact of the matter is that all legislation must be enforced, which then requires an increase in the number of Civil Servants required. So for each civil or technological advancement that can potentially be misused, laws and regulations must come into place to deal with them. A functioning government can only grow as its society does.

Sensible individuals accept this as the cost of doing business and chip in their tax dollars, there’s always a few (in America a lot) who consider all tax theft.

They say this as kings of their domains, but they’d be the first to cry when a bigger boy came along and took what they considered theirs, if there wasn’t enforceable legislation there to protect them.

I can promise you that America has never even flirted with a socialist idea.

While I agree with you that the US isn't remotely socialistic, I'd quibble with your characterisation of the Biden Democrats as of the centre-right and akin to the Conservative Party of the past (unless you're talking about the 50s and 60s). Biden has shifted policy and the overall ideological framing from Clinton and Obama. It wasn't until Biden came along that trickle-down economics was declared as nonsense (Starmer has picked up on this too), and that there has been substantial state spending on a project via the Insurance Reduction Act. That's far closer to the New Deal project that coincided with the most successful period of the US' history.

 

[Jackthelad]

It's a cultural war of extremes. There is huge propaganda on both sides. Republicans view the Democratic party as dangerous nonces and pervs who are corrupt they point towards The Biden family, Hunter Biden's laptop, and then we have X accounts like Libs of TikTok who show the most radical of left and it scares the living hell out of conservatives. Then we have the Democratic Party who view Republicans as Nazis, White supremacists who support Russia and want are pro guns who want a handmaid's tale society. Both sides view themselves as "the good side" and the other as evil personified. We have two leaders running for the most powerful job in the world who are unfit for office, and in my opinion two corrupt parties who have made some disastrous mistakes.

 

[Stat Brother]

While I agree with you that the US isn't remotely socialistic, I'd quibble with your characterisation of the Biden Democrats as of the centre-right and akin to the Conservative Party of the past (unless you're talking about the 50s and 60s). Biden has shifted policy and the overall ideological framing from Clinton and Obama. It wasn't until Biden came along that trickle-down economics was declared as nonsense (Starmer has picked up on this too), and that there has been substantial state spending on a project via the Insurance Reduction Act. That's far closer to the New Deal project that coincided with the most successful period of the US' history.

However he's done it he's managed to reduce inflation faster than any other country.
Significantly reduced unemployment.
Wiped out student debt for low income families.

 

[Machiavelli]

However he's done it he's managed to reduce inflation faster than any other country.
Significantly reduced unemployment.
Wiped out student debt for low income families.

Well precisely. Oh for one term of an administration like Biden's.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But electable?

Sadly, very much so.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

However he's done it he's managed to reduce inflation faster than any other country.
Significantly reduced unemployment.
Wiped out student debt for low income families.

I didn't know that. Impressive.

I am wondering whether our correspondent, @lasvegan thinks Trump could match that.

For those who are primarily obsessed with illegal immigrants, what are the 'illegal immigration' stats, @Stat Brother ? I read it in an unverified opinion piece (you can guess the rest) that Biden has let this 'soar' compared with the Great Wall era of Dump. What are the facts?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's a cultural war of extremes. There is huge propaganda on both sides. Republicans view the Democratic party as dangerous nonces and pervs who are corrupt they point towards The Biden family, Hunter Biden's laptop, and then we have X accounts like Libs of TikTok who show the most radical of left and it scares the living hell out of conservatives. Then we have the Democratic Party who view Republicans as Nazis, White supremacists who support Russia and want are pro guns who want a handmaid's tale society. Both sides view themselves as "the good side" and the other as evil personified. We have two leaders running for the most powerful job in the world who are unfit for office, and in my opinion two corrupt parties who have made some disastrous mistakes.

I'm not sure that Hunter's laptop matches Trumps long list of frankly insane cockwomblery in terms of corruption-equivalence.

I don't buy into the 'they are all the same' narrative (which is designed to keep the swing voter away from the ballot box and upsetting the apple cart - for Dump and Sunk - you don't hear labour or Democrat supporters sighing and dismissing everyone as being all the same).

 

[Stat Brother]

I didn't know that. Impressive.

I am wondering whether our correspondent, @lasvegan thinks Trump could match that.

For those who are primarily obsessed with illegal immigrants, what are the 'illegal immigration' stats, @Stat Brother ? I read it in an unverified opinion piece (you can guess the rest) that Biden has let this 'soar' compared with the Great Wall era of Dump. What are the facts?

I don't know I would imagine the narrative is almost identical to over here.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know I would imagine the narrative is almost identical to over here.

I will have a look.

Like you (I presume) this is not the first thing I think about when I eat my breakfast. Or consider who is best suited to lead a country.

 

[Seagull58]

I didn't know that. Impressive.

I am wondering whether our correspondent, @lasvegan thinks Trump could match that.

For those who are primarily obsessed with illegal immigrants, what are the 'illegal immigration' stats, @Stat Brother ? I read it in an unverified opinion piece (you can guess the rest) that Biden has let this 'soar' compared with the Great Wall era of Dump. What are the facts?

According to the MAGA maniacs, such as Marge three toes and Bobo the groper, the border is wide open under Biden, and fentanyl has flooded into the country along with the illegals. The "evidence" they present for this opinion is the massive increase in the quantity of fentanyl SEIZED at the border. Their logic is impeccable.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know I would imagine the narrative is almost identical to over here.

Hmm.... it seems you're right. Who knew?

15 Myths About Immigration Debunked | Immigration | Carnegie Corporation of New York

Alex Nowrasteh of the Cato Institute offers nonpartisan facts in response to common myths about immigration

www.carnegie.org

Oh yes. This. Biden is dealing with far more illegal immigrants than Dump managed:

And yet I also recall someone posted on NSC that Biden is doing worse than Dump because the actual numbers of illegal immigrants that is undocumented* has increased disproportionately since Biden got in, because Biden is seen as, er, a soft touch and, er, didn't complete the half-arsed hardly-build wall that Dump started to 'build'.

There is nothing more determined than someone who has made up their mind and is untouchable by so-called facts.

That was 3 minutes of my life spent on research that I'll never get back.

*That means unknown. Except in the minds of Dump supporters. They know. Fact.

 

[Stat Brother]

I will have a look.

Like you (I presume) this is not the first thing I think about when I eat my breakfast. Or consider who is best suited to lead a country.

As said just like here when the chips are down the easy targets are your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, to make yourself seem stronger.

The border has never been anything other than a sieve since it was introduced.
There hasn't been a single measure introduced to change that, from any previous president.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As said just like here when the chips are down the easy targets are your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, to make yourself seem stronger.

The border has never been anything other than a sieve since it was introduced.
There hasn't been a single measure introduced to change that, from any previous president.

Wonderful weaponizing opportunity, though.