Fitzcarraldo
Well-known member
- Nov 12, 2010
- 961
Absolute hachet job on the ticket agencies. I hope it kills them (viagogo and the like) dead, nothing quite like a cartel being felled.
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Channel 4 NOW
- Thread starter Fitzcarraldo
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Fitzcarraldo
Well-known member
- Nov 12, 2010
- 961
- Thread starter
- #3
Usually these programmes don't really reveal anything, think the panorama episode where they tried to incriminate the football agents, this has got it spot on. Whilst they may not be commiting may not be commiting any actual crimes you can only hope customers just don't buy no more.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,350
thing is, why pin it on the ticket agencies? the promoters are suppling the tickets. i think it just means they should be selling the tickets at a higher price and being more honest and up front about what they want to charge.
at the end of the day its not actually against your human rights to miss tickets to an event, some of the hand wringing over the matter is quite disproportionate to the non-crime commited.
at the end of the day its not actually against your human rights to miss tickets to an event, some of the hand wringing over the matter is quite disproportionate to the non-crime commited.
Ok, so 200 people with viagogo t-shirts on are in front of you in a que for tickets to see Brighton in the cup final and you dont get a ticket cos they bought them all to sell at a profit. Happy ?
Fitzcarraldo
Well-known member
- Nov 12, 2010
- 961
- Thread starter
- #6
This argument doesn't really hold water. It is not really your human right to not pay disproportionatly for anything, the only things that are protecting you are monopoly laws that stop the large businesses creating the aforementioned monopolies.
sten_super
Brain Surgeon
The issue is that they are price discriminating in order to maximise revenues beyond what the market would bear.
Assume a venue holding 10k people, where all tickets are effectively the same (i.e. they are all standing tickets, or tickets for a festival).
If they charge £50 a ticket, they can sell them all and make £500,000 (50 x 10,000).
If they charge £100 a ticket, they can sell 50% of them and make £500,000 (100 x 5,000).
If they charge the 50% of people that will pay £100 that amount, and sell the rest for £50, they make £750,000 ((100 x 5,000) + (50 x 5,000)).
I'm f***ing ecstatic. Brighton just got to a cup final.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,350
no not happy, but if you go up to the chap in the vaigogo t-shirt and buy a ticket from him you've just encouraged it. the clubs recognise this problem buy limiting ticket sales to members. football ticket reselling is illegal so its a bit different anyway.
i would disagree, the fact they sellout with so many sold at the higher prices suggest the market will bear a higher price. i assume this is arranged so the promoters pocket more money than officially paying to the acts. there might be a degree of PR involved too, i seem to recall a lot of Outrage when Madonna dared charge lots of cash for her show, though it sold out too. looks better to have reasonable "face value" while selling half the tickets at twice as much.
the issue seems to be the deception. im pointing out is its not only the ticket agencies involved.
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sten_super
Brain Surgeon
The point is that by doing it they can sell identical tickets at two separate prices, which they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. As the programme illustrated, a lot of people aren't willing to pay the inflated prices available on viagogo - the point is that there is a market at this price, it's just a lot smaller than at the standard price.
There may be other secondary effects (PR, etc.) but gig tickets are already often very expensive - I can't see that they are compelling enough to encourage this behaviour.
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,127
Great programme - got them by the tight and curlies. There is surely enough there to prosecute Viagogo and Seatwave for misrepresentation.
Interesing that the promoters themselves, such as LiveNation, Metropolis and SJM, take such a massive cut. I wonder what the artists involved think about that?!
Interesing that the promoters themselves, such as LiveNation, Metropolis and SJM, take such a massive cut. I wonder what the artists involved think about that?!
brakespear
Doctor Worm
Depends on how many loyalty points they had.
Having worked in the music 'industry' for both artists and promoters, it is highly unlikely at the lower levels (JLS, Olly Murs etc) that promoters make money from selling on to agents such as viagogo - these guys buy up the tickets and then sell on at a higher retail vaule. The increase in profit does not go back to the promoters, it goes in the pockets of the seller, in this case, viagogo. We never received any kickback from such agents for selling tickets, in fact, in this climate, your grateful for selling tickets. I dont know what happens with bigger league acts such as Cold Play and Take That as mentioned in the programme but I would imagine the promoters and artists would distance themselves from this sort of activity. In fact, on most concerts, if tickets go above a certain predicted level (such as 10,000 tickets in a venue with a capacity of 12,000) or if ticket revenue at a venue goes above predicted levels, then the agent/tour accountant will claim a percentage of the increased ticket price once the promoter has broken even and made a profit. For example, if a ticket sells for £35inc VAT, a tour accountant will claim £20 per additional ticket sold above the predicted ticket sales. They have the right to see all box office sales, regardless of where they came from. They only people that win are the touts and secondary ticket websites - fingers crossed the law is changed soon and people can gain tickets for near on face value. x
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,127
Did you see the programme? There was pretty clear evidence that promoters would sell hundreds of tickets direct to viagogo, who would then sell them on at, say, double face value. Viagogo only got a small cut of that - the majority went to the promoters.
Hatterlovesbrighton
something clever
A pedant writes.... Wouldn't happen as its illegal to resell football tickets.
More generally I'm a free market kind of guy. If you've got property you should be allowed to sell it for any price the market can bear.
Yes, I saw the programme - I am speaking from my experience of putting on concerts for smaller acts such as JLS and Olly Murs and for small promoters - Having run the budgets for these events, I KNOW that there was no kick back to the promotors for selling tickets for a highly inflated price. As mentioned, I have no idea how this works for larger acts OR larger major promoters or if they do this or not. I can simply state that working for smaller promoters, this NEVER happened.
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,127
Yeah, sounds like it was the big promoters such as Live Nation and SJM - putting on massive concerts and getting huge kick backs.
Its also worth noting that SJM and Metropolis Music (both named in the program) work together/are the partners and have a linked website called gigsandtours.com where you can buy tickets 'first' including VIP packages and Meet and greets. The promote Cold Play, Take That, V Festival etc.
Its also worth noting that SJM also promote 'smaller artists' that I named such as JLS. Where there is demand, there will be touts, however, this tends to happen where the 'big boys' have picked up prime concert dates and locations and not where there are smaller and lower pickings which small promoters pick up.
Its also worth noting that SJM also promote 'smaller artists' that I named such as JLS. Where there is demand, there will be touts, however, this tends to happen where the 'big boys' have picked up prime concert dates and locations and not where there are smaller and lower pickings which small promoters pick up.
The artists collude with the promoters! Madonna and Rihanna are in the LiveNation stable, for example.
southstandandy
WEST STAND ANDY
- Jul 9, 2003
- 5,668
If you have the nerve and want a ticket badly enough be prepared to queue outside the venue on the night of a gig until literally performance time. It's a gamble but last week I was at the O2 seeing a film with a friend and saw that Snow Patrol were playing that evening. We came out of the cinema and asked a tout how much tickets were going for only to be told £60 each. We went and had a coffee and at 8.50pm (10 mins before they were due on stage) we bought 2 tickets for £10 each from the same tout. He needed to shift what looked like 20 or 30 he had and at the last minute was practically giving them away.
I did this for the Foo Fighters gig last year at Milton Keynes and bought a ticket for £15 at the last minute. The last few gigs in Brighton I have been to see have not cost me anymore than £15 as the touts don't want to be left at the last minute with unsold tickets. Yes you miss the support and the chance to buy a pint at the bar for £4 but if you are in town and are willing to take a chance it can work.
I did this for the Foo Fighters gig last year at Milton Keynes and bought a ticket for £15 at the last minute. The last few gigs in Brighton I have been to see have not cost me anymore than £15 as the touts don't want to be left at the last minute with unsold tickets. Yes you miss the support and the chance to buy a pint at the bar for £4 but if you are in town and are willing to take a chance it can work.