[Politics] Brexit

[Green Cross Code Man]

I am wondering if NSC's leavers have any major concerns about the form brexit is likely to take. I always thought that while remainers were essentially voting for one thing, leavers in my experience were voting for a range of scenarios.

I share the concern that we could mess up Brexit. However I am very hopeful that we will prosper in the decision we've made. I would disagree that remainers voted for one thing or the status quo though. The EU is changing massively and has changed massively in the last ten years. I don't believe the banking crisis or its ramifications are over yet. I think the huge inward immigration Europe is seeing along with the terrorist problems will fuel other Brexit type scenarios in countries such as Holland.

 

[pastafarian]

The country is looking mean-spirited. You can discount the rise in violence against Remain supporters and eastern Europeans as the actions of a minority, but consider this: Our land of 64 million people has agreed to take in, every year until 2020, a quantity of war-battered Syrian refugees equivalent to Grimsby Town's home attendance. It is a tiny number. An opinion poll I read two days ago showed what the British people thought of this figure. The great majority of those questioned thought it was too many.

This isn't the England I love.

.

Have you considered perhaps if the majority do think this this number is too high as you say, then maybe you are out of touch yourself. There is no reason here to fall out of love with England over this.

Perhaps the numbers being brought in are about right and reflect our ability to house and support the refugees without becoming over stretched and negatively impacting those who already live here and require the help of various support services. Im sure you dont need reminding that Kent Council had to tell the gov it couldnt accept any children under the relocation programme as it was already swamped.

And has there been a rise of violence against Remain supporters? Was there previously a large amount of violence directed towards people because they were remain supporters that warrants saying it has risen?

 

[pastafarian]

I came hereto discuss the EU and matters relating.

If you were genuinely here to discuss EU matters you would answer a question posed to you rather than reply with " get over yourself"

Shall i try again and give you the benefit of the doubt that you are genuine.

1/ Which workers rights have been lost like you claim according to your predictions since the brexit vote
2/ Who is organising a second referendum to be carried out in a "few months" like you claim will happen.

 

[Soulman]

. I think the huge inward immigration Europe is seeing along with the terrorist problems will fuel other Brexit type scenarios in countries such as Holland.

Hmmm.

Former communist states are planning to exploit the fallout of Brexit with a “counter-revolution” designed to block migrant deals and assert the power of national governments over Brussels.

Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, an influential diplomatic European Union bloc known as the Visegrad Group, will lobby together at a summit next week to ensure that national governments are put back in the EU’s driving seat.

The summit will gather all EU leaders, excluding Theresa May, in Slovakia’s capital to forge a new vision of Europe. It is expected to expose the rift between newer member states

more
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-vote-sparks-new-revolt-by-eu-states-dpvd9xnhw

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Hmmm.

Former communist states are planning to exploit the fallout of Brexit with a “counter-revolution” designed to block migrant deals and assert the power of national governments over Brussels.

Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, an influential diplomatic European Union bloc known as the Visegrad Group, will lobby together at a summit next week to ensure that national governments are put back in the EU’s driving seat.

The summit will gather all EU leaders, excluding Theresa May, in Slovakia’s capital to forge a new vision of Europe. It is expected to expose the rift between newer member states

more
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-vote-sparks-new-revolt-by-eu-states-dpvd9xnhw

That is not surprising news.

That paywall is irritating though!

 

[crookie]

I voted 'remain' but your 3 sentences above sum up my feelings on Brexit now entirely.

Agree, but voted out. Honestly didn't know how I was going to vote as I walked in to vote. What swung it was what the EU has become, I just didn't believe it was reformable, and I thought what we were offered in our 'negotiation' was pitiful. That said I don't have the greatest of confidence in our political class. The EU still holds plenty of cards, despite the trade imbalance. I have confidence that the British people will make the best of it, and potentially this could be a fantastic opportunity for the UK. I just hope the politicians don't screw it up for us

 

[Soulman]

Just got this from an old school friend who has lived in Italy for years. He owns a hotel in Tuscany.


Fair Deal for UK Citizens: Brexit Challenges to the EU & Government
By Fair Deal for Expats

President of the EU Commission Jean-Claude Juncker has banned discussions with the UK about its future relationship with the EU unless and until the UK triggers Article 50. This stops any deal being done now, or even discussed, to guarantee the rights of UK citizens, especially the 1 to 2 million who live in other EU countries. Support our legal challenge to this, and our challenge to the Government giving notice to leave the EU without Parliament having a say.

About The Case.

We are Fair Deal for Expats, a non-profit organisation. We are trying to make sure that discussions and negotiations can take place between the UK Government and the EU Commission now - before the UK has triggered Article 50. This is really important because the UK is in its strongest negotiating position before Article 50 has been triggered.

Juncker's ban on the Commission talking to the UK is harming the rights and interests of the UK and all its citizens right now, especially for those who have made their lives or business in other EU countries.

In the words of our President, John Shaw: "Juncker's ban needs to go and the UK needs time to have discussions and negotiations before the UK triggers Article 50, in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements - which we contend requires Parliament's involvement".

So we are involved in two important legal cases, for which we are seeking your support. Your support will help to fund both these related cases.

We will allocate the money raised by your donations in the following proportions: one third on each of the two cases, with the other third used between the two cases as needs arise.

Claim against Juncker

Firstly, we are bringing the only legal challenge (as far as we know) against the EU Commission to overturn EU President Juncker's ban on discussions and negotiations, which we believe is unlawful. We need your support.

Juncker says that he issued a 'Presidential Order' banning any discussions or negotiations with the UK following the Brexit referendum: "No notification - no negotiation". When we contacted the Commission, it confirmed that there was, in fact, no such thing as a Presidential Order and suggested that it may have been a mistranslation. However, as you can see from the clip of him making his speech he clearly said"Ordre Presidentielle" which is French for 'Presidential Order' (just after 2 mins and 50 seconds).

Indeed, the Commission's own Press Release records him as saying exactly that.

Read on
https://www.crowdjustice.co.uk/case...n=brexit-challenge-junker&utm_medium=facebook

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Do you think this could be an issue that we might not need to worry about if the EU starts to crumble.

I think your answer exposes the sort of divisions in opinion of bexiteers and possible future faultlines. You obviously have an ideological hatred of the eu and as such Im guessing you dont want the uk dealing with any sort of single market. however there seem to be many leave voters who think we should remain in the single market. If and when May's task force get round to deciding the route we are going to pursue either you or they are going to be disappointed

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

A question for you. Would the Outers have mutely accepted the vote if it had gone against them? Farage and the Tory right made it clear they wouldn't. No one is whimpering, no one is whining but some people are posting inaccurate, patronising, derivative and near illiterate tosh.

Yes i would,but i would have felt an opportunity had been missed,to leave a Federal Republic....

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

15 years or more before things get better

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-to-cause-15-years-of-economic-pain-former-eu-lawyer-10569236

Yes.....it really could take that long,longer even,but then it's not about me,it's about my children and their children's children....

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I think your answer exposes the sort of divisions in opinion of bexiteers and possible future faultlines. You obviously have an ideological hatred of the eu and as such Im guessing you dont want the uk dealing with any sort of single market. however there seem to be many leave voters who think we should remain in the single market. If and when May's task force get round to deciding the route we are going to pursue either you or they are going to be disappointed

I would like to trade as part of the single market but I don't think the EU in its current form will make it palatable for the UK as it won't want to encourage other states to take the same route as us. I think that will be a mistake on behalf of the EU. It depends whether the petulant and power mad Juncker who is not fit to govern and has delusions of grandeur and his ilk, or more reasonable people get their way.

 

[studio150]

Nice one, rather than tackle where the "bitter" and "hostile" are in the reasons you gave about me, you pick on a mistake i made. Let me tell you, i shall mistype wrong facts, i might even get things completely wrong, possibly like a few others. So if i gave the "annual" figures as a "monthly figure then it is a FACT that i got it wrong, my bad.

Now you accusations to my Remainers being "bitter and "hostile" where you replied quote:
Quote Originally Posted by studio150 View Post
"Really? Says a man would regularly posts inaccurate information and refuses to answer direct questions, and basically just says we won get over it."

Where is the bitter and hostile among your "facts"

Where did I mention bitter and hostile about you. This is something that you have read into this for your own benefit. The stutle suggestion was given your continued posting of inaccurate detail, why should we believe your acqusation against unnamed remain voters, as you failed to provide any example.

Still as everything is rosy in your world, keep believing what you want.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I would like to trade as part of the single market but I don't think the EU in its current form will make it palatable for the UK as it won't want to encourage other states to take the same route as us. I think that will be a mistake on behalf of the EU. It depends whether the petulant and power mad Juncker who is not fit to govern and has delusions of grandeur and his ilk, or more reasonable people get their way.

Therese May says she is 'ambitious' in her hopes to negotiate a deal involving free access to the single market coupled with movement controls but it will be the tallest of orders. If the UK introduces EU immigration controls and still get that access then we will have broken through one of the founding principles of the European Union. It really does go a long way beyond the ambitions of one fonctionaire.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Yes.....it really could take that long,longer even,but then it's not about me,it's about my children and their children's children....

Interesting, because the main reason I voted the way I did was for the sake of my children and their children, their hopes and ambitions. So in one small way, however we voted, we were on the same side on June 23rd.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Interesting, because the main reason I voted the way I did was for the sake of my children and their children, their hopes and ambitions. So in one small way, however we voted, we were on the same side on June 23rd.

Be it China,India,Brazil,Germany,Iran or Pakistan,we all at the end of the day want the same thing/things,however longer term where Remain and Leave differ in their main opinion is that the canvass of diversity,the eclectic mix of cultures and peoples,should not be within the expense of EU countries,that includes at a longer term the loss of the identity of the United Kingdom.....the six countries i mentioned all have a diverse history,yet from that list the country most likely to lose identity within the coming century is Germany.......I voted leave to help ensure the UK does not go the same way.

As for the other five,they will still be great wonderful countries and retain their identity.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Have you considered perhaps if the majority do think this this number is too high as you say, then maybe you are out of touch yourself. There is no reason here to fall out of love with England over this.

Perhaps the numbers being brought in are about right and reflect our ability to house and support the refugees without becoming over stretched and negatively impacting those who already live here and require the help of various support services. Im sure you dont need reminding that Kent Council had to tell the gov it couldnt accept any children under the relocation programme as it was already swamped.

And has there been a rise of violence against Remain supporters? Was there previously a large amount of violence directed towards people because they were remain supporters that warrants saying it has risen?

Absorbing 3 or 4 thousand war-shattered families shouldn't overstretch a country of 65 million people. If most British people think this is too many then I really do despair.

I don't really want to go back to the subject of violence against Remain supporters because, as I said, we shouldn't make too much of the actions of a minority. But as you mention it, yes, there has clearly been a rise - I haven't done a great Google search but attention at the time was caught by the fact that the police across south Yorkshire advised Remain supporters not to campaign because they couldn't guarantee their safety. The murder of an MP happened the day after she campaigned for Remain. There has also been a well-charted rise in violence against immigrants. I do find it difficult to accept that the relentless day-after-day vilifying of migrants by horrendous tabloid newspapers hasn't helped create the climate in which such things are more likely.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yes.....it really could take that long,longer even,but then it's not about me,it's about my children and their children's children....

teach them a few languages and hope they can land a proper job somewhere else then

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

teach them a few languages and hope they can land a proper job somewhere else then

Thinking a few F& C words (football style of course) money's pretty good too ...... But post EU & Brexit-Mandarin is the future i hear....

 

[Soulman]

Interesting, because the main reason I voted the way I did was for the sake of my children and their children, their hopes and ambitions. So in one small way, however we voted, we were on the same side on June 23rd.

Good point.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Thinking a few F& C words (football style of course) money's pretty good too ...... But post EU & Brexit-Mandarin is the future i hear....

No need to learn Mandarin to do their manual jobs