[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Visas are not freedom of movement. ****ing racist idiot.

Yes they are, ask the country issuing them
Have you changed your nappy lately ?
Regards
DF

 

[zefarelly]

Everyone in Government has a responsibility
Regards
DF

That is not an answer. Its a statement which is largely ignored!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

They do. They have that username and sign off for ages and nothing happened. They mods protect them and even allow/curate a glorifying "spoof" account honouring them. I do not understand why they are allowed to post here.

If you think the spoof account glorifies PPF, you need to give your head a wobble

I don't think there is single other poster who gets so much pelters.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I was entirely against Brexit originally, but once the vote was lost I became frustrated with the impasse and the politicians refusal to act, so I voted for Boris at the election to take the matter to conclusion.

I am quite sure that the UK will be worse off in the short term, it may see some kind of bounce back in the medium term. In the longer term, 20 years plus, it will rejoin the EU.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But does it not reduce the opportunities for workers here to work abroad leading to a more captive audience in the uk? Or at least put more barriers in front of them to work abroad. Why is it bad that workers from elsewhere come here to earn more than they would at home? Should we not help those countries improve conditions so that wage undercutting is less of an issue. Also in a capitalist country that we live in is it not a good thing to push down wages and increase profits?

You raise some big issues. I think perhaps you are looking at the micro economics of opportunities as opposed to the macro effect on the economy. I’m not really a capitalist so am not the best person to advance the case for unfettered market forces. I am not in favour of driving down wages for profit as consider it socially and economically self defeating. Anyway, perhaps all this is for the Brexit thread. You asked for a reasoned answer to your question without being called a snowflake and I hope I have given you that.

 

[Gwylan]

Really interesting to read. Didn’t think it was possible to be left wing & pro-brexit.

In all seriousness what aspects of the more or less solidly socialist construct of the EU in absolute terms did you feel didn’t work from your perspective?

[this is not a fishing post or a flippant comment, I’m genuinely interested]

I think the idea that the EU is socialist would raise a few eyebrows. If it were, why are the Communist party, the SWP, the Socialist Party and the Bennite left so opposed to it?

 

[wellquickwoody]

They do. They have that username and sign off for ages and nothing happened. They mods protect them and even allow/curate a glorifying "spoof" account honouring them. I do not understand why they are allowed to post here.

Seeing as you are so unhappy with this forum, is there any chance you could just ? ?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Freedom of movement means you do not need a visa...oh ffs why am I bothering.

Everyone has the freedom to apply for a visa as and when required
Regards
DF

 

[ManOfSussex]

And I see the Government are all giving this same consistent message

Sharma pressed over post-Brexit concerns for vaccine supply

Cabinet minister Alok Sharma repeatedly failed to rule out that the supply of a coronavirus vaccine would not be affected by problems when the new arrangements come into force on January 1.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/sharma-pressed-over-post-brexit-concerns-for-vaccine-supply/

And you seem to have missed the question the last few times I have asked, because I'm sure you wouldn't be ignoring it so,

What NSC account did you used to post as ?

He's certainly filled a void on both here and my ignore list since JCFG abandoned his mate Ppf all alone to champion Brexit between CBeebies programmes and colouring in books.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

That is freedom to apply for a visa for temporary movement. That is not freedom of movement is it. You see the difference? Probably not

It is if you get multiple Visa's, the worlds your oyster ,where's your first Visa going to be ? ,Russia ?where men are men and Women are approachable?
Regards
DF

 

[LamieRobertson]

It is if you get multiple Visa's, the worlds your oyster ,where's your first Visa going to be ? ,Russia ?where men are men and Women are approachable?
Regards
DF

“Men are men“ ...hmmm

 

[ManOfSussex]

IRussia ?where men are men and Women are approachable?
Regards
DF

What does it for you about Russian men then tiger?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

What does it for you about Russian men then tiger?

Leather boots and furry hats
Regards
DF

 

[GT49er]

Seeing as you are so unhappy with this forum, is there any chance you could just ? ?

No he won't - as one of the usual suspects on the Brexit threads, he won't give up his mantra ("Why don't they answer my question (again!)") until this thread gets consigned to the bear pit.

Everyone has the freedom to apply for a visa as and when required
Regards
DF

Neither will he ...................

 

[Gwylan]

I could what? See there is only one brexit person on here that engaged in an actual conversation. [MENTION=34242]Neville's Breakfast[/MENTION] deserves a lot of credit. The rest of you are just abusive.

Where have I been abusive?

 

[WATFORD zero]

It wasn't a left v right issue, rich v poor or bourgeois v proletariat. When people who I respect such as [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] say they voted for Brexit and articulated differing but considered reasons then perhaps instead of throwing brickbats why not engage in adult debate and listen to their concerns?

There aren't 19.1 million racists in this country and their aren't 19.1 million stupid people either, so instead of belittling, which results in those that don't share your views doubling down, it is better to consider the concerns of others.

There are fundamental and systemic things wrong in this country, which had led to many people feeling unrepresented and cast adrift. The EU may be responsible for some of them, or may be a scapegoat. Until you engage you won't find out.

Now I said that I wouldn't post on this thread again, but it's all your fault [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION].

[MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] has always taken a sensible well informed and well researched view to Brexit. He has explained what he wanted, why he thought he would get it, why it hasn't happened and why he believes it was now a mistake. He has done this in a lot of detail giving well thought out reasoned responses throughout the last 4.5 years of debate.

[MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] has always said it is a matter of principle, regardless of economic cost, that the UK should not have to give any 'power of sovereignty' away to a larger organisation, regardless of any benefits that may bring. [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] also comes from the same principle and, although I don't agree with it, because it is principles and there is no cost/benefit case I cannot prove them wrong and we will agree to differ.

The individuals who want to go 'no deal', I struggle with, simply because recognising the effects of 'no deal' I struggle to understand why anybody actually would want to do it ? (But unfortunately, we may find out in the next few weeks).

For the people who believe that we have missed out on a 'good deal' through poor negotiation, I have to ask why would the EU give tariff free access to their markets, to a significant European Economy without taking the sensible steps of ensuring that they can't undercut EU businesses by way of Government subsidies, regulations, safety standards, welfare rules, employment rules etc etc - you know, the sort of things defined in a customs union).

(This includes those that think the EU are trying to punish us - why, if you were them, would you allow the above. They are simply protecting the market they have taken 40 years to build).

As I have said on more than one occasion, I'm not a fan of the EU and I believe it has a number of faults that need addressing. However, I don't believe that leaving it can be of any benefit to the UK whatsoever.

If anyone wants to pick up on any of these points, simply post it on the Brexit thread as I am not Pro-Brexit and I wouldn't want to be banned (even though I haven't insulted anyone, trolled etc etc ) for posting a few simple facts on this thread

 

[Sorrel]

@%1;

This doesn't reflect reality at all: Merkel is a very pragmatic politician, it was she who pushed through the changes that Cameron wanted (giving him more leeway than any other EU leader) and it was she (along with Rutte) who has been most active in trying to keep the UK onside.

It will be interesting to see who succeeds her, if it's Laschen or Röttgen, it will be more of the same; if it's Merz, then he'll be less European and more focused on Germany (there's a small chance that it could be Söder but that would be a bit like Sturgeon becoming PM in a Labour/SNP alliance).

Rutte I like - and maybe this is all just prejudice on my part then - but to me Merkel doesn't come across that way. To me she says the EU should be flexible in the current negotiations, but I'm not convinced that any such instructions are given to the negotiating team.

Of course, I have no idea what is actually said - maybe there other leaders are pushing against it. Macron obviously is in every way, but I do quite like him because you can see where he stands. With Merkel's position I'm not so sure.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Leather boots and furry hats
Regards
DF

You're just like Elton John to that blonde Russian woman in his video to 'Nikita' and so proud.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Everyone in Government has a responsibility
Regards
DF

Which ones do you think are living up to that responsibility..purely out of curiosity

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You're just like Elton John to that blonde Russian woman in his video to 'Nikita' and so proud.

She's English
Regards
DF