[Politics] Brexit

[cunning fergus]

Learning the meaning of "apply equally"?

What should apply equally though?

I don't want equality for UK and foreign workers........I want UK workers in the UK to have greater protection than foreign workers. I think this is what you are struggling to understand, because evidently you don't agree with that sentiment.

If I lived on a street of 28 houses, where the residents wanted to live in any house on the street they wanted to then I would disagree with it.

I would further disagree with the view that anyone who didn't come from the street could also choose to live in any house on the street.

The fact that I want to prevent anyone, whether or not they live on the street strolling into my house doesn't mean I want to restrict those living in my house from moving from the bathroom to the kitchen.

You want to conflate control within my house with control of my front door.

They are very different points.......very very different.

Unless you live in a house without a front door......

 

[cunning fergus]

Maybe as a start you should actually read what you have previously written. To assist you:

I would protect their wages by managing supply and demand, and if this is done properly this should also mean that they should see an increase in living and social conditions by not being in competition for schools housing etc.

To make it perfectly simple, and everyone accepts that you have banned any foreign worker from working, how are you going to manage supply and demand.

Perhaps a start would be to actually respond to a situation that was outlined to you previously. Feel free to put as many cats on the mat as you need to, as clearly nobody is in the same universe as you.


You have previously stated that you would control the internal labour market to ensure that the workers aren't poorly paid. To achieve this you gave stated that you would control demand thereby ensuring workers would remain employed with wages that improve living standards.

You have not explained how this would be achieved, nor have you given any examples of countries where this is successfully achieved and how it is achieved.

One additional question on this utopia. How does it promote technology advancements which would reduce the need for labour in that sector.

As an example on Chinese railways they previously employed thousands of workers to stand by the track at regular distances holding a flag to wave the train through.

In terms of wages in this example it doesn't matter whether more or less trains run as the worker with the flag will still be paid to be by the track.

The Chinese then decide to introduce automatic signalling So that signals replace all The flag track workers.

You now have thousands and thousands of unemployed workers whose only skill is to wave a flag when a train arrives.

So what do you do with these workers that are now out of work. Do you have to pay them benefits to the same level of their pay just to sit at home.
Or Do you say that there are vacancies in a town 250 miles away where you will be retrained. However the ex track workers don't want to change areas.

How would your utopia deal with this?


Please feel free to take your time to ensure that you have all the cats you need to fully answer this question and provide the fullest answer possible so that we can all understand your interventionist position.

You seem to have all the answers.........tell me which first world developed country outside the EU you can simply move to tomorrow and legally reside and work in without a visa or other application?

There must be loads.........go on, this is your opportunity............seize the day!

 

[Mental Lental]

What should apply equally though?

I don't want equality for UK and foreign workers........I want UK workers in the UK to have greater protection than foreign workers. I think this is what you are struggling to understand, because evidently you don't agree with that sentiment.

If I lived on a street of 28 houses, where the residents wanted to live in any house on the street they wanted to then I would disagree with it.

I would further disagree with the view that anyone who didn't come from the street could also choose to live in any house on the street.

The fact that I want to prevent anyone, whether or not they live on the street strolling into my house doesn't mean I want to restrict those living in my house from moving from the bathroom to the kitchen.

You want to conflate control within my house with control of my front door.

They are very different points.......very very different.

Unless you live in a house without a front door......

So what happens when the plumbing needs fixing and there are no plumbers living in your house? However there's this plumber living 3 doors down who'll work for reasonable rates but you don't want to let him into your house. How are you going to fix this problem? How are you going to solve the problem of supply and demand for essential services within your house that can't be done by it's current residents?

THIS is the question being asked of you, presented to you in the same format as this batshit crazy analogy that you've created (in order to get out of asking the original question.)

What you really need to do is clarify whether you'd rather have no plumbing at all than have it fixed by a stanger (ie foreigner). I'm sure the other residents of your household would be happy with your stance once winter pops round and there's no central heating. Right?

Right?

 

[cunning fergus]

So what happens when the plumbing needs fixing and there are no plumbers living in your house. However there's this plumber living 3 doors down who'll work for reasonable rates but you don't want to let him into your house. How are you going to fix this problem? How are you going to solve the problem of supply and demand for essential services within your house that can't be done by it's current residents.

THIS is the question being asked of you, presented to you in the same format as this batshit crazy analogy that you've created in order to get out of asking the original question.

Good point, however as I have over 60m living in my house, I am comfortable I will be able to find a plumber............in the last few years when I didn't have a front door 1m turned up from No 23 and moved into my bathroom cabinet.

 

[brighton fella]

You seem to have all the answers.........tell me which first world developed country outside the EU you can simply move to tomorrow and legally reside and work in without a visa or other application?

There must be loads.........go on, this is your opportunity............seize the day!

Absolutely none that i know of and i'm eager to find out if there is. one awaits an answer.

 

[Mental Lental]

Good point, however as I have over 60m living in my house, I am comfortable I will be able to find a plumber............in the last few years when I didn't have a front door 1m turned up from No 23 and moved into my bathroom cabinet.

So your official stance on the matter is "don't worry about it, I'll always be able to find someone in my house to fill the need for every conceivable demand." Riiiiiiigggght.

Meanwhile the other houses in your street are sharing between them the best possible people for the jobs required at the most competitive prices. Your house that already has all the bestest bestest workers doesn't need them other ones right?

Until you find out you do need them after all. And they can't come and help you because you locked your front door.

 

[Baldseagull]

What should apply equally though?

I don't want equality for UK and foreign workers........I want UK workers in the UK to have greater protection than foreign workers. I think this is what you are struggling to understand, because evidently you don't agree with that sentiment.

If I lived on a street of 28 houses, where the residents wanted to live in any house on the street they wanted to then I would disagree with it.

I would further disagree with the view that anyone who didn't come from the street could also choose to live in any house on the street.

The fact that I want to prevent anyone, whether or not they live on the street strolling into my house doesn't mean I want to restrict those living in my house from moving from the bathroom to the kitchen.

You want to conflate control within my house with control of my front door.

They are very different points.......very very different.

Unless you live in a house without a front door......

You said what should apply equally on 6th Jan in your response to Lincoln Imp, your view on free movement of labour, "within a state or as with the EU across a group of states, it makes no difference."

Are you Sean Spicer?

 

[GT49er]

Easter hasn't happened yet, but how many Easter eggs have already been sold

Thousands - if not millions - have been sold to people who believe that the Easter weekend (with Easter Eggs on Easter day) will happen. So, are you remoaners going to come along and tell them they're in cloud cuckoo land, that there won't be an Easter Bank Holiday weekend?
Good luck with your next version of Project Fear if that's the case!

 

[studio150]

You seem to have all the answers.........tell me which first world developed country outside the EU you can simply move to tomorrow and legally reside and work in without a visa or other application?

There must be loads.........go on, this is your opportunity............seize the day!

How about you answering the question on how you are controlling the wages of the labour market first.

You have had upteen opportunities to do so but have failed to do so everytime.

 

[studio150]

Thousands - if not millions - have been sold to people who believe that the Easter weekend (with Easter Eggs on Easter day) will happen. So, are you remoaners going to come along and tell them they're in cloud cuckoo land, that there won't be an Easter Bank Holiday weekend?
Good luck with your next version of Project Fear if that's the case!

Totally missing the point but thats standard for leavers.

Based on your comments just substitute Brexit for Easter and you are saying that Brexit wont happen.
A very strange pisitiom from a leavet but hsppy to accept.

 

[studio150]

You said what should apply equally on 6th Jan in your response to Lincoln Imp, your view on free movement of labour, "within a state or as with the EU across a group of states, it makes no difference."

Are you Sean Spicer?

More Comical Ali ?

 

[Mental Lental]

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/08/uki...mens-day-to-replace-international-womens-day/

 

[pastafarian]

As an example on Chinese railways they previously employed thousands of workers to stand by the track at regular distances holding a flag to wave the train through.

In terms of wages in this example it doesn't matter whether more or less trains run as the worker with the flag will still be paid to be by the track.

The Chinese then decide to introduce automatic signalling So that signals replace all The flag track workers.

You now have thousands and thousands of unemployed workers whose only skill is to wave a flag when a train arrives.

So what do you do with these workers that are now out of work. Do you have to pay them benefits to the same level of their pay just to sit at home.
Or Do you say that there are vacancies in a town 250 miles away where you will be retrained. However the ex track workers don't want to change areas.

How would your utopia deal with this?
.

Im thinking if its you deciding then you tell the indigenous flag wavers to get knotted, always waving their bloody flags……and no one likes that right? Next bring in some cheaper labour from abroad who don’t care about waving the flags anyway, this will give you the excuse to perpetrate the narrative that flag waving is the outdated vestige of little Chinamen and racists and xenophobes.
Win win in your little book.
Watch out though, mess with the wavers too much and they are likely to bring those flags out again and flick you with them right in the nuts when you least suspect it.
You will be moaning for months and months when that happens.

 

[pastafarian]

I hope it didn't take you too long to dream that clunky effort up.

How long did it take you to decide that you didn’t want to share what page the info concerning cunnings zero unemployment claim was on?

 

[pastafarian]

Do I agree to a free labour market in the EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the UK? No, I want controls.

If we allow foreign workers to come to the UK freely and without any controls we are operating a free labour market in the UK. I disagree with this.

I want restrictions on foreign workers not UK workers.

You are not playing fair here.
Constantly clarifying your position goes against the general spirit of the thread where ignoring clarifications and sticking to outdated information is considered legitimate by Team Remain.

Good point, however as I have over 60m living in my house, I am comfortable I will be able to find a plumber............in the last few years when I didn't have a front door 1m turned up from No 23 and moved into my bathroom cabinet.

Bit of a schoolboy error there.
You should have had a front door with a security chain, at least you could manage the comings and goings. Which idiots thought it was a good idea to take your front door off? Did they want to take your back door off as well or were they a bit hypocritical and liked the security offered by your back door even though they claim to be in favour of open doors.
Must be a different type of person trying to get past your back door compared to the ones waltzing in through the front with no door at all. Im sure they have a sound basis for treating the two groups differently.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Makes you wonder why some are so against us Leaving the EU.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...r-mandelson-among-pro-eu-peers-looking-force/

 

[nicko31]

Sore losers all of them. Gravy train about to end ( well in 2yrs hopefully ).

We'll all be losers, but after yesterday's budget its evident the poorer will sorer under this Tory gov. Hard years ahead

 

[Deleted member 22389]

We'll all be losers, but after yesterday's budget its evident the poorer will sorer under this Tory gov. Hard years ahead

I'm self employed, I don't earn much, but happy to pay more NI. There isn't enough money going in to the system.

 

[cunning fergus]

So your official stance on the matter is "don't worry about it, I'll always be able to find someone in my house to fill the need for every conceivable demand." Riiiiiiigggght.

Meanwhile the other houses in your street are sharing between them the best possible people for the jobs required at the most competitive prices. Your house that already has all the bestest bestest workers doesn't need them other ones right?

Until you find out you do need them after all. And they can't come and help you because you locked your front door.

No they are not, because there is not equal movement. Some houses have much better stuff so those houses where the residents serve Kellogg's Crunchy Nut cornflakes in the morning are seeing more people move to their house compared to those houses who can only afford porridge. Those houses that have 55in smart TVs are attractive to those living in houses with old black and white tellys'.........it's not difficult to understand is it.

The trouble is those leaving the houses with porridge and B&W TVs will struggle to improve if everyone wants to live somewhere else.

Those better off houses will have to buy more Kellogg's Crunchy Nut cornflakes because everyone has moved there so they may have to go for the LIDL branded equivalent to cope with demand. Previously accepted standards start to fall.......people get angry, they want Kellogg's.

In my house I offer completely free medication to anyone in my house and I am buying more tablets than ever, so I need to manage the doors to ensure I am only providing tablets to those that should be in my house, not the freeloaders from down the street where they charge residents for tablets.

It's just how it is........it's why people lock their front doors in Japan, the UK and the world over.

 

[cunning fergus]

How about you answering the question on how you are controlling the wages of the labour market first.

You have had upteen opportunities to do so but have failed to do so everytime.

I am sorry, I was taking it as read that everyone understood the laws of supply and demand.......that said I am having to dumb down quite a lot at the moment (can you believe I am even using a houses in a street metaphor for the UK and EU at the moment) so please forgive me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eT7VDPrQwIc

Once you have digested the model, apply it to the labour market.........the labour market works in a slightly different way but at this point I think it's important that we just keep to the basics.