[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

I must admit I'm intrigued by the developing farming situation. I think I'm correct in that farmers by-and-large voted to leave, despite their subsidies and I see the NFU are campaigning for 'tariff-free access to the Single Market and continued access to a competent and reliable workforce, in order for British food and farming to flourish post-Brexit.'

I see they want to trial a 'controlled fixed-term work permit scheme' targeted at 'Non-EU workers' next summer as since the vote the EU workforce isn't what it was, coupled with a falling pound making it less attractive for EU workers to come here.

So, surely it would make sense to utilise non-EU workers from non-EU countries close enough to us to make it practical to travel, such as Ukraine and Turkey, with it's very large, young Muslim population, to work in places like Lincolnshire. Can anyone envisage any potential problems anyone would have with this?

Yet another bunch of Brexiteers who didn't really think it through. And I bet they will have the cheek to call us patronising if we suggest they're a bit dim and uneducated

It really is a mess isn't it?

 

[Baldseagull]

Who do you look to.
Did this apply to the Richmond result.

The Electoral Commission has given the LibDems the maximum £20,000 election fraud fine, ruled they committed multiple offences and referred them to the police. Guido had previously told how LibDem candidates had split their spending between their local and national spend – they even had a handy spreadsheet used to cook the books. Time and time again the LibDems told us they had done everything above board. The Electoral Commission’s investigation uncovered 307 payments totalling £184,676 which the candidate had split between local and national spend, but which were missing from the national return. They have ruled that the LibDems committed multiple offences under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act and issued them with the maximum fine. They also slammed the LibDems for contributing to “damage to public confidence” and “detriment to transparency in politics”. Here’s the real kicker: the Electoral Commission notes that knowingly or recklessly making a false declaration is a more serious criminal offence, of which they believe the LibDems are guilty. They have referred the matter to the Metropolitan Police…

That would be difficult to apply to Richmond, in that I don't see how it would be possible to apportion any campaign funds to national campaigning in a by-election.
Still a very serious charge, but rather surprising that the lib dems had enough funds to overspend.

 

[GT49er]

Is it possible to have higher rate tax payers who are not wealthy?

Oh come on! After paying their accountants, service charges for moving money, overseas bank charges and lawyers fees some of the poor lambs can scarcely afford to run a ten year old Vauxhall Astra!
I'm sure there's a fund for them somewhere.......please give generously.

 

[studio150]

so wealthy higher rate tax payers voted to remain and low income voters voted to leave
are you surprised?

Not really but the survey seemed more comprehensive than earlier exit polls.

 

[Baldseagull]

I must admit I'm intrigued by the developing farming situation. I think I'm correct in that farmers by-and-large voted to leave, despite their subsidies and I see the NFU are campaigning for 'tariff-free access to the Single Market and continued access to a competent and reliable workforce, in order for British food and farming to flourish post-Brexit.'

I see they want to trial a 'controlled fixed-term work permit scheme' targeted at 'Non-EU workers' next summer as since the vote the EU workforce isn't what it was, coupled with a falling pound making it less attractive for EU workers to come here.

So, surely it would make sense to utilise non-EU workers from non-EU countries close enough to us to make it practical to travel, such as Ukraine and Turkey, with it's very large, young Muslim population, to work in places like Lincolnshire. Can anyone envisage any potential problems anyone would have with this?

I think Agriculture is one of the biggest issues in Brexit, if we continue to subsidise our Farmers in the way the EU did, it is going to be an area where trade deals with the rest of the world get bogged down, and tarriffs will be applied to our agricultural produce and foods exports. If we don't subsidise farming, we will have to impose probably even higher tarriffs on imported foods, to push the prices high enough for farmers to earn a living. Food prices are likely to go up pretty sharpish either way.
The other option is let them go to the wall and become fully dependent on imported foods, a crazy situation for a country of our size and amount of fertile land, with world demand on agriculture growing.
As with the whole EU, there are problems with the CAP, but ditching it rather than reforming it will be painful and is unlikely to be replaced with anything better.

Farmers subsidies from the EU are paid in euros, so they will already feel the pain of Pound/Euro exchange rates while we try and work it all out.

 

[nicko31]

I think Agriculture is one of the biggest issues in Brexit, if we continue to subsidise our Farmers in the way the EU did, it is going to be an area where trade deals with the rest of the world get bogged down, and tarriffs will be applied to our agricultural produce and foods exports. If we don't subsidise farming, we will have to impose probably even higher tarriffs on imported foods, to push the prices high enough for farmers to earn a living. Food prices are likely to go up pretty sharpish either way.
The other option is let them go to the wall and become fully dependent on imported foods, a crazy situation for a country of our size and amount of fertile land, with world demand on agriculture growing.
As with the whole EU, there are problems with the CAP, but ditching it rather than reforming it will be painful and is unlikely to be replaced with anything better.

Farmers subsidies from the EU are paid in euros, so they will already feel the pain of Pound/Euro exchange rates while we try and work it all out.

Actually they win benefit from a weaker pound, but take your point.

Agriculture is tough enough as it is, Brexit could well destroy our farmers, and with climate change we are going to need them more and more. Every day the risks leaving the single market are becoming more and more alarming

 

[alfredmizen]

Actually they win benefit from a weaker pound, but take your point.

Agriculture is tough enough as it is, Brexit could well destroy our farmers, and with climate change we are going to need them more and more. Every day the risks leaving the single market are becoming more and more alarming

I asked.a.farmer and he voted leave.

 

[Baldseagull]

Actually they win benefit from a weaker pound, but take your point.

Agriculture is tough enough as it is, Brexit could well destroy our farmers, and with climate change we are going to need them more and more. Every day the risks leaving the single market are becoming more and more alarming

You are quite right, arse about face on the exchange rate there, though that would be another solution for farming, devalue our currency further so that imports are not so cheap. I guess that is where currencies find their true value, if we find it expensive to export and cheap to import, UK production will decrease and the currency will fall towards an equlibrium. Painful process though, to go from a wealthy nation to a poorer one.

 

[Two Professors]

I am struggling to find any reason why I would ever find myself in Westgate for a night.

I think you would struggle-I only managed 16 pubs myself!

 

[Two Professors]

View attachment 79952

Perhaps,as an example of other types of NHS costs,annual retroviral costs might be available for comparison?

 

[Two Professors]

Isn't this an instance of where a reasonable assumption can be made? One set of figures shows that there is a vast mismatch between the number of UK pensioners in Spain and the number of Spanish pensioners in the UK. Another set of figures show that healthcare usage rises sharply as people get older. From these data it seems reasonable to assume that the cost of treating UK citizens in Spain is much higher than Spanish citizens in the UK.

Perhaps,as you seem to know all about ex-pat healthcare in Spain,you could provide us with the percentage of pensioners there who are paying health insurance?

 

[Two Professors]

Over the top and a wonderful if not rare example of the victim mentality you like to charge others with. As has been pointed out no one is 'blaming' older people for claiming more healthcare than younger ones. It's a fact that they do. No more critical than saying that young people claim more in education costs than older ones. Good on both groups I say.

Obviously I don't feel like congratulating older people for voting Leave but your claim that noting the demographics of Leave/Remain voters amounts to 'vile demonisation of the so-called elderly' is bizarre.

Given up on demonising the population of Sunderland,then?

 

[nicko31]

You are quite right, arse about face on the exchange rate there, though that would be another solution for farming, devalue our currency further so that imports are not so cheap. I guess that is where currencies find their true value, if we find it expensive to export and cheap to import, UK production will decrease and the currency will fall towards an equlibrium. Painful process though, to go from a wealthy nation to a poorer one.

Maybe that's what Nissan counting on..

Stay in single market, happy days

Leave single market, north atlantic peso and a low cost centre

Personally I'd rather live in a 1st world country, not Albania in the rain

 

[Two Professors]

I must admit I'm intrigued by the developing farming situation. I think I'm correct in that farmers by-and-large voted to leave, despite their subsidies and I see the NFU are campaigning for 'tariff-free access to the Single Market and continued access to a competent and reliable workforce, in order for British food and farming to flourish post-Brexit.'

I see they want to trial a 'controlled fixed-term work permit scheme' targeted at 'Non-EU workers' next summer as since the vote the EU workforce isn't what it was, coupled with a falling pound making it less attractive for EU workers to come here.

So, surely it would make sense to utilise non-EU workers from non-EU countries close enough to us to make it practical to travel, such as Ukraine and Turkey, with it's very large, young Muslim population, to work in places like Lincolnshire. Can anyone envisage any potential problems anyone would have with this?

You can't see any problem with allowing a large number of young muslims from Turkey here?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Perhaps,as you seem to know all about ex-pat healthcare in Spain,you could provide us with the percentage of pensioners there who are paying health insurance?

I don't know all about ex-pat healthcare in Spain and have never claimed to. I can read a set of figures though and the fact that there appear to be over 1,500 times more UK ex-pats in Spain than Spanish ex-pats in the UK suggests that the cost of treating UK citizens in Spain is vastly higher than vice versa. As far as the percentage of the pensioners with insurance is concerned, I don't know. I can't think of a reason why UK pensioners would be more, or less, likely to take out healthcare insurance though. Can you?

(I'm a bit surprised you're asking me about this to be honest, given that you were claiming I was talking drivel - "typical remainer" - all the way up to the point where other people posted data showing that I wasn't.)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Given up on demonising the population of Sunderland,then?

We've moved onto the entire population of Wakefield. Do keep up

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Given up on demonising the population of Sunderland,then?

What ARE you attempting to make a joke about? I may as well ask you if you have given up complaining about the shops in Hailsham.

 

[Baldseagull]

You can't see any problem with allowing a large number of young muslims from Turkey here?

Whether it is a problem or not is a moot point only, but I don't think it would be any worse than a large number from any other country, and probably less so than many from outside the EU.

 

[El Presidente]

You can't see any problem with allowing a large number of young muslims from Turkey here?

I think he was being sarcastic

 

[ManOfSussex]

You can't see any problem with allowing a large number of young muslims from Turkey here?

Surely 'Non-EU workers' on a 'controlled fixed-term work permit scheme' as proposed by The NFU wont discriminate against religion or which Non-EU country the worker comes from, so I was just wondering if anyone, perhaps in farming areas such Lincolnshire, would have a problem with this? Turkey is the largest Non-EU country nearest to us, so surely it would make sense to take farm workers from there rather than from countries further afield such as Pakistan or Bangladesh?