[Politics] Brexit

[Steve in Japan]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-in-run-up-to-brexit-vote-latest-figures-show

Apologies if fixtures but couldn't see this posted (not on this thread at least). Probably because it's not a surprise.

 

[larus]

Member of the usual bunch here.

I don't think any of us really know how many voters would change their mind if there was another referendum. I am pretty sure that a fair number of Remain voters would change to Leave for the reasons you describe. Others will think 'well we've come this far so we might as well see it out'. The continuing tabloid demonisation of people like Verhofstadt will take its toll.

Balanced against that is the growing gloom of reality. There are a few examples - Ipsos Mori asked people in July whether they thought economic prospects would be better or worse over the coming years. In the north east for example 7.5% thought things would get better because of Brexit. Just under 20% now think it will get worse. For our neck of the woods the figures are plus 8% in July, minus 30% now.

I'm not saying that the worries are soundly based or not. That has been discussed on here for months. What is certain is that the worries are there, and they seem to be getting stronger. What the effect would be on how people think about Brexit we don't, as far as I can tell, know. I think that the mood is changing against Leave but I would say that wouldn't I.

Oh, and just for the record, can I just add that all Leave voters are thick racist bigots. I don't really think that but I know people like to hear it.

I agree with you - we can't know what the outcome of another Referendum would be, but I've read numerous posts where people are stating that it would be a different result now. I have no idea if you have made such a claim, but I assume not from your reply. My honest opinion is that it would not change by much, but maybe more Remain voters would make an effort and swing things. Who knows.

The problem with these predictions is that they are invariably wrong. IMO, the economy is so complicated and trying to model all of the different things which may impact it into a piece of software is impossible. The governments forecasts are always wrong, as are the IMF, OECD, OBR, IFS, etc. How many adjustment have we had from these organisations to their projections since the vote, so I will take these predictions with a huge dose of salt and prefer to focus on the 'reported figures' (which I also accept are vary hard to trust and are often subjective).

Glad you're keeping to the stereotype of us Leavers though. Just don't let me know your address otherwise I'll be round with my skin-head mates and our pit-bulls to sort you out geezer

 

[vegster]

It's been climbing for the last few weeks. It hit 1.18 last week before any such comments, so you can't just link the rise to a one off statement.

David Davis said that the UK would be " Willing to pay for access to European markets " ... marvellous, so we still have to pay for the access we had before but with no bargaining power or benefits from the EU ...

 

[larus]

David Davis said that the UK would be " Willing to pay for access to European markets " ... marvellous, so we still have to pay for the access we had before but with no bargaining power or benefits from the EU ...

And no restrictions upon trade deals.
And the ability to import cheaper food from other parts of the world.
And the ability to be selective on immigration.
And the amount we pay will be less than we pay now.

 

[mikeyjh]

It's been climbing for the last few weeks. It hit 1.18 last week before any such comments, so you can't just link the rise to a one off statement.

No, you were just very damning of any alternative view but the figures you shared did not have any context, I was just adding some for the veracity of the conversation - To ignore the response of the markets to David Davis' positive comments regarding access to the single market is, to paraphrase you, incompetent.

I won't pass comment on us paying for the EU but not being able to influence it as none is required. Other than to reiterate that the whole thing is shambolic.

 

[larus]

No, you were just very damning of any alternative view but the figures you shared did not have any context, I was just adding some for the veracity of the conversation - To ignore the response of the markets to David Davis' positive comments regarding access to the single market is, to paraphrase you, incompetent.

I won't pass comment on us paying for the EU but not being able to influence it as none is required. Other than to reiterate that the whole thing is shambolic.

At what point in my post say that it had recovered today. It's been a steady recovery for a few weeks as the markets have realised that they were wrong (again, as markets often are - they have a herd mentality).

 

[studio150]

Oh, here we go again. Another prat spouting the myth that the referendum was won by bigots and racists (and he probably thinks 'old' and 'thick' as well) voting leave because they don't like foreigners. It's really rather pathetic.

Old is correct given the demographic detail that has been published, also less qualified is correct based on degree status.

 

[Soulman]

Most people have absolutely no idea what the EEA is, nor do they care, so long as the foreign types stop trying to open grocery stores on their high-street and stop speaking funny languages on the bus.

.

I really thought after over 2200 pages and this coming up countless times, that MOST people realise that MOST people who voted Brexit did so for the reasons that have been stated many times over the course of this thread.

 

[GT49er]

I really thought after over 2200 pages and this coming up countless times, that MOST people realise that MOST people who voted Brexit did so for the reasons that have been stated many times over the course of this thread.

No - some people never learn. Especially if things don't then fit with their pre-conceptions/prejudices.

 

[GT49er]

Old is correct given the demographic detail that has been published, also less qualified is correct based on degree status.

Official figures on racists and bigots not available, then?

 

[smeg]

Official figures on racists and bigots not available, then?

That's a given

 

[portslade seagull]

Old is correct given the demographic detail that has been published, also less qualified is correct based on degree status.

And still you push the racist card. Give it a rest and do your homework. Teach yourself something else

 

[nicko31]

David Davis said that the UK would be " Willing to pay for access to European markets " ... marvellous, so we still have to pay for the access we had before but with no bargaining power or benefits from the EU ...

Sounds like some are finally waking and smelling the coffee. Without the single market we're fooked

 

[wellquickwoody]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38168942

Maybe a few Brexitiers will start to realise a few home truths now. It ain't black or white, and many negotiations are going to need to be done. Years of uncertainty ahead which cannot be good for the economy.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38168942

Maybe a few Brexitiers will start to realise a few home truths now. It ain't black or white, and many negotiations are going to need to be done. Years of uncertainty ahead which cannot be good for the economy.

"The major criterion here is that we get the best possible access for goods and services to the European market "

The UK currently enjoys the best access to goods and services? Have I missed something?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38168942

Maybe a few Brexitiers will start to realise a few home truths now. It ain't black or white, and many negotiations are going to need to be done. Years of uncertainty ahead which cannot be good for the economy.

That is precisely what most of the leave people have been saying for months. It's just taken remainers a long long time to appreciate that. A few weeks ago, there were loads of impatient posts from remainers that things weren't happening quickly enough. It can't work both ways.

 

[studio150]

Official figures on racists and bigots not available, then?

Only opinions and I'm sure you're not in these two sub-sectors

 

[studio150]

And still you push the racist card. Give it a rest and do your homework. Teach yourself something else

Where does my post comment on 'the racist card'. If you are going to challenge a comment perhaps you should start by actually reading and understanding what has been written.

 

[larus]

Sounds like some are finally waking and smelling the coffee. Without the single market we're fooked

Yeah i guess so. After all, that single market has works SOOOOO well for Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France. Oh sorry, inconveninet facts like that don't really help the argument.

The EU is inward not outward looking. It's all about protectionism and rules. The rest of the world is powering forward, yet the EU is stuck in the past thinking that the West has some god-given right to all the 'benefits' without the hard-work. Those days of cheap foreign labour supplying cheap products to the West are drawing to a close, as they aspire to the Western levels of wealth, yet the West seems to think it can still have 35 hour weeks and all the other social benefits. The problem with that is it makes the West uncompetitve, hence the protectionism.

 

[wellquickwoody]

That is precisely what most of the leave people have been saying for months. It's just taken remainers a long long time to appreciate that. A few weeks ago, there were loads of impatient posts from remainers that things weren't happening quickly enough. It can't work both ways.

Think you might be interpreting that to suit your own viewpoint. Those who did not vote to leave have in the main been advocating negotiations to ensure the least damaging outcome for the UK. The Brexitiers seem to believe that our economy actually will get £350 million per week back into its coffers, that may be possible, if we want to commit economic suicide.

So will those who voted to leave be happy paying for access to the single market?