[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Yes, he is Pro Brexit so this is a little odd, however, he does usually have an agenda and has often pushed editors to do his bidding.

Its just swings and roundabouts though. The Times was remain, The Sunday Times backed Brexit. The Daily Mail backed Brexit, The Mail on Sunday was remain..............

 

[Baldseagull]

Thanks for the two choice option, lack the balls or lack the intelligence.
How about we just stick to some facts.

Yes continued trade with EU internal market, or access to it if you prefer that term but not as full members of it.
Its this non membership of it that allows us to not have to bow down to the regulatory waffle of the body that helps regulate it(ECJ), hence being able to return sovereignty to Westminster.
Its this non membership that allows us to seek free trade agreements with other nations that doesn’t involve the EU holding our hand.
Its this non membership that, as Hannan says himself would allow us to “withdraw from the Common Agriculture and Fisheries policies” and allow us to “apply no tariffs either to EU or non EU states”

Lets face it,if you are talking about seeking free trade deals with The EU after we leave and are looking at examples and models from other places such as Canada Switzerland Guernsey and Norway to name but a few this can only mean you are outside being members of The Single Market. If you were still members of the single market there would be no need for these new trade deals in the first place as you would have all the member benefits anyway.

You should probably ditch the lie about free movement, it was a lie when printed on that leaflet that went round the houses then and it’s a lie now.
As our old chum Hannan pointed out the claim “cross the line into straightforward inaccuracy”

The Claim
“Countries that want free access to Europe`s market of 500 million have to accept free movement”
Hannan
“Nonsense. To pluck a random example, The EU just signed Free-Trade agreements with Columbia and Peru.
No one suggested that free movement had to be part of the deal.
Outside the EU, Britain might want to keep a measure of labour mobility with other EU states. But we would recover the ability to decide whom to admit and in what numbers.”

Trade deals are not the same, Colombia and Peru do not have, and will not get, full free access to the single market. There will be a schedule of tariffs and some of those will now be zero rated, some will become zero rated over the next few years, some will have a low tariff and some will have a high tariff. Many services will not be permitted at all, including financial services.
This is not the full free access that Hannan has advocated and insisted we would have. As someone once told me, you need to look at everything he has said to get the bigger picture. In this case you also need to look at the trade deal between the EU and Colombia to see that it is, as all free trade agreements are, limited free trade.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Trade deals are not the same, Colombia and Peru do not have, and will not get, full free access to the single market. There will be a schedule of tariffs and some of those will now be zero rated, some will become zero rated over the next few years, some will have a low tariff and some will have a high tariff. Many services will not be permitted at all, including financial services.
This is not the full free access that Hannan has advocated and insisted we would have. As someone once told me, you need to look at everything he has said to get the bigger picture. In this case you also need to look at the trade deal between the EU and Colombia to see that it is, as all free trade agreements are, limited free trade.

I suspect that Pastafarian knows full well the difference between full access and free trade deals - creating smoke screens between all the variations and going into overdrive when someone uses the wrong definition for a particular arrangement seem to be matters of some pleasure to him.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Such anger in your text, I just don't understand why people feel the need to respond in such a way because another person has a different viewpoint. I don't read the Daily Mail and will use whatever terms I chose and if you don't want to take me seriously thats your issue, but like many that I have heard during the post Brexit times, you seek to close down any opinion thats contradictory to yours, maybe it makes you feel better or maybe in some way its a healing process for those who were not in the majority last June.

Re-read your message: "you seek to close down any opinion thats contradictory to yours". No I don't, I'm just calling out those who make lazy tabloidesque name-calling because we're beyond that now. The facts were known before the referendum and the facts are known now. The Times and the Mail are both carrying the story that Farage is considering emigrating to the USA on the day after the Chancellor confirmed that the OBR were predicting significantly reduced growth because of impending Brexit.

There isn't one voter in the 48% who would vote Brexit now if given the chance whereas there would be considerably more than the 1 in 17 Brexit voters needed to tip the balance the other way.

There is also no healing process for the 48%, if anything they are more angry than they were the day after the vote.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Worst period in earnings growth for 70 years coming up according to the IFS - http://news.sky.com/story/uk-real-wages-wont-grow-for-a-decade-ifs-think-tank-warns-10670075

What do they know though, they're only experts.

 

[beorhthelm]

There isn't one voter in the 48% who would vote Brexit now if given the chance whereas there would be considerably more than the 1 in 17 Brexit voters needed to tip the balance the other way.

i dont understand the conviction with which remainers assume they'd win the day in another vote. you thought you'd win in July, doesn't that mean anything?

 

[Pavilionaire]

i dont understand the conviction with which remainers assume they'd win the day in another vote. you thought you'd win in July, doesn't that mean anything?

You've proved my point - the referendum was in June, just another example of a leaver getting the facts wrong. Again.

 

[Soulman]

Yesterday's Brexit Feet protest outside Parliament, courtesy of RT (The BBC must have been busy...)

"The UK people voted overwhelmingly to leave. This Parliament here is holding it up all they can."

"Politicians are stalling the process. They should trigger Article 50 straight away."

"There are lots of people out there who want to undo the will of the people."

"It is not only about the UK. When Britain leaves it is showing the way for the whole of the European nations, that they can have decisions of their own - Polish, French, Spanish, Greece."

#Brexit #Article50

The BBC rushed down to Parliament when the Remoaners had a gathering.

 

[vegster]

Yesterday's Brexit Feet protest outside Parliament, courtesy of RT (The BBC must have been busy...)

"The UK people voted overwhelmingly to leave. This Parliament here is holding it up all they can."

"Politicians are stalling the process. They should trigger Article 50 straight away."

"There are lots of people out there who want to undo the will of the people."

"It is not only about the UK. When Britain leaves it is showing the way for the whole of the European nations, that they can have decisions of their own - Polish, French, Spanish, Greece."

#Brexit #Article50

The BBC rushed down to Parliament when the Remoaners had a gathering.

Brave move getting your news from Russia Today.

 

[vegster]

Worst period in earnings growth for 70 years coming up according to the IFS - http://news.sky.com/story/uk-real-wages-wont-grow-for-a-decade-ifs-think-tank-warns-10670075

What do they know though, they're only experts.

This is pretty much what we knew would happen as its been like this for the last few years, although the economy has been growing it has not transferred in to wage growth. With slightly tougher times ahead this will only stay the same or get worse. In the last recession most workers took a cut in pay or pay freezes in order to keep their jobs and I think this mindset from employers remains.

I had a 1% pay rise 18 months ago and my June pay review has been deferred to December and the boss is mumbling to staff that a review is no guarantee of any increase, I'm lucky, he likes me and I do a vital job so I may get 1% next month.....At this rate the MInimum Wage ( now strangely called The Living Wage ? ) will catch up with my wage in 3-4 years.

At least we got what's left of our country back.

 

[BigGully]

This is pretty much what we knew would happen as its been like this for the last few years, although the economy has been growing it has not transferred in to wage growth. With slightly tougher times ahead this will only stay the same or get worse. In the last recession most workers took a cut in pay or pay freezes in order to keep their jobs and I think this mindset from employers remains.

I had a 1% pay rise 18 months ago and my June pay review has been deferred to December and the boss is mumbling to staff that a review is no guarantee of any increase, I'm lucky, he likes me and I do a vital job so I may get 1% next month.....At this rate the MInimum Wage ( now strangely called The Living Wage ? ) will catch up with my wage in 3-4 years.

At least we got what's left of our country back.

Spoilt an otherwise reasoned post .....

 

[ManOfSussex]

This is pretty much what we knew would happen as its been like this for the last few years, although the economy has been growing it has not transferred in to wage growth. With slightly tougher times ahead this will only stay the same or get worse. In the last recession most workers took a cut in pay or pay freezes in order to keep their jobs and I think this mindset from employers remains.

I had a 1% pay rise 18 months ago and my June pay review has been deferred to December and the boss is mumbling to staff that a review is no guarantee of any increase, I'm lucky, he likes me and I do a vital job so I may get 1% next month.....At this rate the MInimum Wage ( now strangely called The Living Wage ? ) will catch up with my wage in 3-4 years.

At least we got what's left of our country back.

Our pay reviews are early next month and we've been told not to expect any rises. We have a freeze in recruitment too until the end of the financial year in April - that decision was taken in October though.

 

[studio150]

Seems that a pro Brexit march was (almost) a complete failure

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-protests-parliament-london-article-50-eu-referendun-a7434416.html

Don't know why anyone would bother to turn up anyway, as the rule of law must be allowed to take its due process to allow a ruling to be provided, and Parliament must not be above the law.

 

[alfredmizen]

This is pretty much what we knew would happen as its been like this for the last few years, although the economy has been growing it has not transferred in to wage growth. With slightly tougher times ahead this will only stay the same or get worse. In the last recession most workers took a cut in pay or pay freezes in order to keep their jobs and I think this mindset from employers remains.

I had a 1% pay rise 18 months ago and my June pay review has been deferred to December and the boss is mumbling to staff that a review is no guarantee of any increase, I'm lucky, he likes me and I do a vital job so I may get 1% next month.....At this rate the MInimum Wage ( now strangely called The Living Wage ? ) will catch up with my wage in 3-4 years.

At least we got what's left of our country back.

How can you blame all this on brexit if as you yourself say it's been like it for the last few years ?

 

[GT49er]

There isn't one voter in the 48% who would vote Brexit now if given the chance whereas there would be considerably more than the 1 in 17 Brexit voters needed to tip the balance the other way.

Regardless of which side of the argument you are on, posting totally unsubstantiated rubbish like that and labelling it as fact doesn't help your cause one bit.

 

[vegster]

Spoilt an otherwise reasoned post .....

Perhaps you can tell me exactly how much of our country is left ? most of the rail and bus franchises have foreign owners, as do many of our energy suppliers and water companies all of which siphon profits out of the country. Our car manufacturing is almost entirely foreign owned, our steel industry ( if still running? ) is owned by an Indian company and we have to bribe the French and Chinese to build our power stations. We are unable to run an efficient rail service despite the huge ticket prices and the NHS is creaking despite it employing medical staff from around the world to fill the gaps.......People with serious mental health problems are killing themselves or innocent passers by as they can't get treatment....suddenly the government is recruiting 2,000 odd prison warders though after a couple of riots have brought them to their senses...

where does it end ? I am already swerving around this season's potholes on my local road and now our two speed economy faces further wage stagnation....public services and the little things we take for granted are be cut/closed .....public toilets, public libraries even my local rubbish tip can only open 5 days a week now... Give money to poor people and it goes straight back in to the economy in order for them to live, give more money to rich people and it gets invested and hoarded..... I take it you have no solutions to our problems except hope BigGully ?

 

[nicko31]

Seems that a pro Brexit march was (almost) a complete failure

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-protests-parliament-london-article-50-eu-referendun-a7434416.html

Don't know why anyone would bother to turn up anyway, as the rule of law must be allowed to take its due process to allow a ruling to be provided, and Parliament must not be above the law.

These members of the local Darby and Joan club have prospered nicely in the last few decades, most bought their houses cheap, have decent pensions, were lucky young enough to haves missed two world wars, have an NHS at its peak and probably are the only age group that have done OK in the last decade, and they still ain't happy.

The Victor Meldrew generation that will never be happy

 

[Soulman]

These members of the local Darby and Joan club have prospered nicely in the last few decades, most bought their houses cheap, have decent pensions, were lucky young enough to haves missed two world wars, have an NHS at its peak and probably are the only age group that have done OK in the last decade, and they still ain't happy.

The Victor Meldrew generation that will never be happy

I think the Victor Meldrew's are the Remoaners, any snippet of a downturn and up the moaned pop.

 

[nicko31]

Yesterday's Brexit Feet protest outside Parliament, courtesy of RT (The BBC must have been busy...)

"The UK people voted overwhelmingly to leave. This Parliament here is holding it up all they can."

"Politicians are stalling the process. They should trigger Article 50 straight away."

"There are lots of people out there who want to undo the will of the people."

"It is not only about the UK. When Britain leaves it is showing the way for the whole of the European nations, that they can have decisions of their own - Polish, French, Spanish, Greece."

#Brexit #Article50

The BBC rushed down to Parliament when the Remoaners had a gathering.

If you believe RT more than the Beeb you just keep watching, its Putin's propaganda channel nothing less. How many times have they breached ofcom guidelines?

 

[vegster]

How can you blame all this on brexit if as you yourself say it's been like it for the last few years ?

Can I draw your attention to this part of my post.....

This is pretty much what we knew would happen as its been like this for the last few years, although the economy has been growing it has not transferred in to wage growth. With slightly tougher times ahead this will only stay the same or get worse. In the last recession most workers took a cut in pay or pay freezes in order to keep their jobs and I think this mindset from employers remains.

Brexit IS going to cause a second slowdown/stagnation or recession.......we might have just picked up our economy given another couple of years now we are stuffed.