Bell Cheeses at work

[Mental Lental]

My niece has just started working for a one of the top accountants in the city as a graduate intern. Her hours are 9 to 5:30, yet she is expected ( yes expected) to start work at 7 in the morning and she rarely gets out before 10:30 pm....seemly if you look to start packing up to leave anytime before 8 pm, you are subject to sarky comments.

She lives in Hammersmith.

Seemly she was told that to " get on in the industry" you need to show to go above and beyond.

This is so Japanese.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Office lady who sits in the back office, playing candy crush and some stupid animal farm game and occasionally does the invoices from 9am-3pm mon-fri, has only gone and booked a stupid health and safety seminar at the showroom for all staff and fitters on Tuesday 2nd January at 9am the first day back at work after Christmas break....

We don't start until 8am usually anyway....

Only someone who works in the office could book that time and date.

Why do that.

 

[Lower West Stander]

This is so Japanese.

I worked for a Japanese Bank years ago and the hierarchy was a sight to behold.

As a gai-Jin I wasnt subject to the same practices but on the occasions I had to work (very) late watching Japanese office etiquette was fascinating.

They all have strictly tiered job titles. Senior Managing Director, Managing Director, General Manager etc. No lower tier of manager would ever leave before his senior. So even though they had nothing to do (it was all delegated) they all just sat round talking, practising imaginary golf swings etc for hours on end. Often not leaving until 10 or 11 at night when it was deemed socially acceptable. Quite often they would All go to a restaurant for dinner and then come back on the premise of the time difference with Tokyo.

And this happened every single day.


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[happypig]

I worked for a Japanese Bank years ago and the hierarchy was a sight to behold.

As a gai-Jin I wasnt subject to the same practices but on the occasions I had to work (very) late watching Japanese office etiquette was fascinating.

They all have strictly tiered job titles. Senior Managing Director, Managing Director, General Manager etc. No lower tier of manager would ever leave before his senior. So even though they had nothing to do (it was all delegated) they all just sat round talking, practising imaginary golf swings etc for hours on end. Often not leaving until 10 or 11 at night when it was deemed socially acceptable. Quite often they would All go to a restaurant for dinner and then come back on the premise of the time difference with Tokyo.

Borrocks to that.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I worked for a Japanese Bank years ago and the hierarchy was a sight to behold.

As a gai-Jin I wasnt subject to the same practices but on the occasions I had to work (very) late watching Japanese office etiquette was fascinating.

They all have strictly tiered job titles. Senior Managing Director, Managing Director, General Manager etc. No lower tier of manager would ever leave before his senior. So even though they had nothing to do (it was all delegated) they all just sat round talking, practising imaginary golf swings etc for hours on end. Often not leaving until 10 or 11 at night when it was deemed socially acceptable. Quite often they would All go to a restaurant for dinner and then come back on the premise of the time difference with Tokyo.

And this happened every single day.


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Takes me back to my 7 months in Tokyo. Never out of the office before 8 and then it was still probably 75% full. Made to sit nearest to the door at every single meeting. The more senior you were the further from the door you sat. Senior was based on rank and age and Gai Jin were regarded as lower than a Japanese 18 year old post boy. Not as bad as one of our other sites there where the working day lasted till about 10, where you had to walk a specific route from the station to the office and where there was a mandatory team meeting at 5pm on a Friday.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Takes me back to my 7 months in Tokyo. Never out of the office before 8 and then it was still probably 75% full. Made to sit nearest to the door at every single meeting. The more senior you were the further from the door you sat. Senior was based on rank and age and Gai Jin were regarded as lower than a Japanese 18 year old post boy. Not as bad as one of our other sites there where the working day lasted till about 10, where you had to walk a specific route from the station to the office and where there was a mandatory team meeting at 5pm on a Friday.

I would not like that one little bit, that sounds terrible like chickens in a coop.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I would not like that one little bit, that sounds terrible like chickens in a coop.

That's pretty much the idea.

There were upsides however. Though the hours were very long I never worked a weekend. The pay was fantastic and so was the food and my apartment. And when we did get away a bit earlier the local karaoke joint offered all you could drink hours for a fiver down. @Toronto Seagull and I used to order pints of gin and tonic. The locals can't drink - we could.

 

[dazzer6666]

I worked for a Japanese Bank years ago and the hierarchy was a sight to behold.

As a gai-Jin I wasnt subject to the same practices but on the occasions I had to work (very) late watching Japanese office etiquette was fascinating.

They all have strictly tiered job titles. Senior Managing Director, Managing Director, General Manager etc. No lower tier of manager would ever leave before his senior. So even though they had nothing to do (it was all delegated) they all just sat round talking, practising imaginary golf swings etc for hours on end. Often not leaving until 10 or 11 at night when it was deemed socially acceptable. Quite often they would All go to a restaurant for dinner and then come back on the premise of the time difference with Tokyo.

And this happened every single day.


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I did an audit in Japan a few years ago and saw a lot of this. Loads of working hours but almost zero productivity. Quite bizarre. It was interesting culturally too. As ‘head office’ auditors, we seemed to be immune from normal Gai Jin protocols and were treated like minor royalty.

Oddest thing was when I was discussing a relatively minor weakness in one of their processes that needed fixing. When I asked the Head of Ops to let me know what action was going to be taken to sort it (in a very low-key way) he responded by saying ‘It is clear, I have failed, I must resign immediately..........’

FFS mate, all you need to do is tweak one of your procedures, not get the ceremonial sword and headband.........

 

[Peter Grummit]

I did an audit in Japan a few years ago and saw a lot of this. Loads of working hours but almost zero productivity. Quite bizarre. It was interesting culturally too. As ‘head office’ auditors, we seemed to be immune from normal Gai Jin protocols and were treated like minor royalty.

Oddest thing was when I was discussing a relatively minor weakness in one of their processes that needed fixing. When I asked the Head of Ops to let me know what action was going to be taken to sort it (in a very low-key way) he responded by saying ‘It is clear, I have failed, I must resign immediately..........’

FFS mate, all you need to do is tweak one of your procedures, not get the ceremonial sword and headband.........

Did he actually resign or was it an honour bound reaction?

Presenteeism is an all round disaster. No one gains from it, least of all the families of those obliged to work ridiculous hours to no purpose. In the long run it actually reduces business profitability, because workers need compensating, or will go elsewhere.

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[dazzer6666]

Did he actually resign or was it an honour bound reaction?

Presenteeism is an all round disaster. No one gains from it, least of all the families of those obliged to work ridiculous hours to no purpose. In the long run it actually reduces business profitability, because workers need compensating, or will go elsewhere.

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Honour-bound reaction (at least I think it was). He repeated it in a meeting we had with him and his boss a few days later, but we said it absolutely wasn’t really necessary.......irony is that his boss ended up getting fired because of all the other stuff we found.

Completely agree. It’s hugely counterproductive, but it tends to breed in an organisation and quickly becomes the norm/expectation. I’ve been in numerous year end performance calibration sessions where a senior manager will be trying to justify a top rating for one of his team by saying ‘but he works really long hours.....’

Ask yourself why he needs to.......

 

[happypig]

got stuck on something and worked 20 minutes extra yesterday. Usually just had stuff over to the incoming shift team.

I really don't understand why people feel they have to give lots of time to thier employer for free.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Must be me!

Our company always get us to put our qualifications,in our signature. To be honest if you are looking for a professional you would always expect to see the qualification list....

Although I am not a professional I have BA( Classics) Open after mine and also my membership of an IT organisation, internationally and local and also ITIL qualifications.

Not really sure what the problem is.

 

[Springal]

Not really sure what the problem is.

The problem is that no-one generally cares!

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I worked for a Japanese Bank years ago and the hierarchy was a sight to behold.

As a gai-Jin I wasnt subject to the same practices but on the occasions I had to work (very) late watching Japanese office etiquette was fascinating.

They all have strictly tiered job titles. Senior Managing Director, Managing Director, General Manager etc. No lower tier of manager would ever leave before his senior. So even though they had nothing to do (it was all delegated) they all just sat round talking, practising imaginary golf swings etc for hours on end. Often not leaving until 10 or 11 at night when it was deemed socially acceptable. Quite often they would All go to a restaurant for dinner and then come back on the premise of the time difference with Tokyo.

And this happened every single day.


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I actually get this subtly now. A guy I have known for 18 years has risen very high up in the business and works out of the US for a lot of his time.

A couple of weeks ago I was on. A call with a load of people and we were waiting for the meeting to start...loads of big nobs on the call and him and I started to have banter about Pompey and brighton ...after the call my boss in the US phoned me and said it was inappropriate the way I talked to him ...I said that I had known him for many years ...going to his wedding...and he just had no idea how we in the uk interact with each other. He said it was disrespectful to his position.

The Indian teams are so shit scared of losing face it is laughable

 

[Publius Ovidius]

The problem is that no-one generally cares!

But in our organisation, a multi billion dollar company they do...and so do our customers.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

But in our organisation, a multi billion dollar company they do...and so do our customers.

So, do you often get customers asking what your degree is in?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

So, do you often get customers asking what your degree is in?

Not necessarily. My degree has no bearing whatsoever on what I do or how I do it. If someone objects to me using it I couldn't give a toss to be honest.

But we work with a lot of sensitively secure customers and they are very keen to know everything about us...have you ever filled out a SC application form with the home office? To touch and enter various parts of our infrastructure, you have to be suitably qualified to do so and I suppose it is easier to see that on your email sig...especially if you want a specialist in a specific area.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Not necessarily. My degree has no bearing whatsoever on what I do or how I do it. If someone objects to me using it I couldn't give a toss to be honest.

But we work with a lot of sensitively secure customers and they are very keen to know everything about us...have you ever filled out a SC application form with the home office? To touch and enter various parts of our infrastructure, you have to be suitably qualified to do so and I suppose it is easier to see that on your email sig...especially if you want a specialist in a specific area.

I have gone through SC clearance when I worked for Sussex police.

Papa Lazarou

Msc, Bsc Hons, DipHe, ISTQB CTAL

 

[Napper]

That's pretty much the idea.

There were upsides however. Though the hours were very long I never worked a weekend. The pay was fantastic and so was the food and my apartment. And when we did get away a bit earlier the local karaoke joint offered all you could drink hours for a fiver down. @Toronto Seagull and I used to order pints of gin and tonic. The locals can't drink - we could.

What was the female situation like over there ? I imagine there is a right etiquette surrounding all that too ?

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I have gone through SC clearance when I worked for Sussex police.

Papa Lazarou

Msc, Bsc Hons, DipHe, ISTQB CTAL

Fun wasn't it! Who my mother has seen after my father died 25 years ago is hardly going to affect national security!