[Politics] Australian Election

[Thunder Bolt]

2 down, one to go. Murdoch must be fuming.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Looks like the Greens and the Teal will hold balance of power

Well done Australia, you've had clowns like Abbott and Morrison. Hopefully you've seen the light

You should see the weasel ****wit they just voted in. One of those tossers that has never worked a real job in their life.

It's why Labor only got 32% of the primary votes. Less than when they lost in 2019 and less than the Liberal party who got 35%

 

[Audax]

Looks like the Greens and the Teal will hold balance of power

Well done Australia, you've had clowns like Abbott and Morrison. Hopefully you've seen the light

Labor needs 76 seats to have a (slim) majority. They currently have 74. There are 6 seats still not called, and Labor are currently ahead in 3 of them.

Of those 3:

1. Brisbane - who wins this seat hinges on who finishes second once preferences from those who finished 4th and lower have been fully counted. As it stands, Labor are second with 21,931 votes with Greens 3rd with 21,897. Last night the Greens were second, so it's flipped - and could easily flip back again. If the Greens finish 3rd, their preferences will see Labor win the seat. And vice versa.

2. Lyons - Labor ahead by 729 currently, but there's still a lot of preferences to be counted. Sizeable Greens vote that should go mostly to Labor, but even bigger vote share to right-wing minor parties that should mostly go to the Liberal. Could go either way.

3. Macnamara - Tight 3-way battle between Labor, Green, and Liberal (currently in that order). There's still a lot of doubt over what order the 3 will finish in once counting reaches the point of having the final 3, however: if it finishes in the current order Labor is the most likely to win as the assumption based on other seats is that more of the Liberal vote will go to Labor than to the Greens.

Of the other 3 seats in doubt, it's straight Liberal vs Labor and they are all very tight with Liberal ahead, but not by much.

So Labor could end with anything between 74 and 80 seats. I suspect 76 or 77 is the most likely outcome, but 75 is definitely possible as well.

I've seen talk that Labor will attempt to nominate a speaker from outside their own party in order to preserve their numbers.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I see no issue with it

But you will now need photo ID to vote in the UK. About 2m have no passport / driving licence

Yes, there will be a way to get photo, but many just won't bother.

We now have voter suppression plus the government now controls the electoral commission.

We really are asleep what they're doing to us....

So how come other Countries in Europe have no issue with photo ID?

 

[BadFish]

Looks like the Greens and the Teal will hold balance of power

Well done Australia, you've had clowns like Abbott and Morrison. Hopefully you've seen the light

We don't seem to stick with the same party for long periods of time. I found this hard to get used to but now I think I like it.

Happy with environmental parties holding the balance of power too.

As an aside as well one of Albo's first actions was to add the Aboriginal and Torres straigh Islanders' flag to the speech making podium thing.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[Baldseagull]

Absolutely a BIG NO from me. Firstly MPs have the right to abstain in parliament votes so why should the electorate not have the same right. Equally I don't agree with Police Crime Commissioners being voted on as it politicises the police - so I don't vote in those elections ( although I vote in all others ) - I'd be mighty pissed off if I had to vote in an election I didn't agree with.

I might just stretch to agreeing with compulsory voting if there was a 'None of the Above' option but even then I'd be very uncomfortable forcing people to do something they don't wish to do.

There are many things you have to do, with a fine as a consequence of not complying. I believe the fine for not voting is $20, just over £10, compare that to not parking within the lines, not buying a TV Licence, not paying Road Tax or registering the car as off the road, not sending your kids to school, not using a bin to dispose of litter, not picking your dog shit up, etc. You may think these are all avoidable, but do you know anyone without any of car, dog, kids, TV?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

There are many things you have to do, with a fine as a consequence of not complying. I believe the fine for not voting is $20, just over £10, compare that to not parking within the lines, not buying a TV Licence, not paying Road Tax or registering the car as off the road, not sending your kids to school, not using a bin to dispose of litter, not picking your dog shit up, etc. You may think these are all avoidable, but do you know anyone without any of car, dog, kids, TV?

Those who may be thinking they can dodge voting in the Federal Election today should consider that it will set you back up to $222 and even a court appearance.

Voting has been compulsory in Australia for people aged 18 and above since 1924, and not voting is a violation of section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act.

Failing to vote attracts a fine of $20, but the cost could grow if that amount isn't paid.

A spokesperson from the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) previously told Yahoo Finance Australia that ignoring the $20 penalty could see the matter land you in court and, without a valid excuse, you could be hit with a $222 fine plus court fees.


Now add that to the bullshit of compulsory voting of State and Council elections and these scumbags are authoritarians.


Which part of Democracy says you should be punished for not wanting to vote? They are saying it's not your vote, its theirs, they own it and you have to use it how they see fit.

 

[Baldseagull]

Those who may be thinking they can dodge voting in the Federal Election today should consider that it will set you back up to $222 and even a court appearance.

Voting has been compulsory in Australia for people aged 18 and above since 1924, and not voting is a violation of section 245 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act.

Failing to vote attracts a fine of $20, but the cost could grow if that amount isn't paid.

A spokesperson from the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) previously told Yahoo Finance Australia that ignoring the $20 penalty could see the matter land you in court and, without a valid excuse, you could be hit with a $222 fine plus court fees.


Now add that to the bullshit of compulsory voting of State and Council elections and these scumbags are authoritarians.


Which part of Democracy says you should be punished for not wanting to vote? They are saying it's not your vote, its theirs, they own it and you have to use it how they see fit.

Which part of democracy is relevant to people that don't vote? Either vote and take part in democracy, or don't and pay your fine, but I can't work out how voting is undemocratic, and that not voting is?
Start a political party with a policy of removing the compulsion to vote, you will get all the people that don't want to vote voting for you, maybe win. Next election there will be a party wanting to restore compulsory voting, and all the people that don't want to vote will turn up to vote for you again to ensure they don't have to vote at the next one, you could end up in power forever because people who don't want to be compelled to vote, feel compelled to vote to protect their right to not vote.

 

[Audax]

Now add that to the bullshit of compulsory voting of State and Council elections and these scumbags are authoritarians.

I think you'll find that an Authoritarian state would prefer that you *don't* vote. Let's not confuse legal obligations enacted through democratic means with "authoritarian" regimes where legal obligations are enacted only because those in power say so.

Boris Johnson's attempts to avoid democracy having a say in Brexit through pro-roguing was closer to being authoritarian that the mandatory turning up to vote. And, at the end of the day, the Australian system doesn't force you to vote. It doesn't even force you to turn up. You still have the *choice* to not turn up in exchange for paying a pretty small $20 fine. You still have that freedom to make that choice, and by your own admission you've made that choice.

Many around the world who genuinely live in Authoritarian states don't.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

There are many things you have to do, with a fine as a consequence of not complying. I believe the fine for not voting is $20, just over £10, compare that to not parking within the lines, not buying a TV Licence, not paying Road Tax or registering the car as off the road, not sending your kids to school, not using a bin to dispose of litter, not picking your dog shit up, etc. You may think these are all avoidable, but do you know anyone without any of car, dog, kids, TV?

But all those things are a choice to have - dog, children, TV and car. Yes, there aren't many people with none of them - although I do know one - but why should I be forced to vote just for living here - the country I was born in. Personally I'd refuse to vote if they brought it in - despite always voting in all LEs and GEs - I'd rather pay the fine - forcing people to vote is not democracy. You also avoid the issue of abstention.

 

[Baldseagull]

But all those things are a choice to have - dog, children, TV and car. Yes, there aren't many people with none of them - although I do know one - but why should I be forced to vote just for living here - the country I was born in. Personally I'd refuse to vote if they brought it in - despite always voting in all LEs and GEs - I'd rather pay the fine - forcing people to vote is not democracy. You also avoid the issue of abstention.

How is allowing only a fraction of the people to vote more democratic than encouraging all the people to vote?

 

[BadFish]

I think you'll find that an Authoritarian state would prefer that you *don't* vote. Let's not confuse legal obligations enacted through democratic means with "authoritarian" regimes where legal obligations are enacted only because those in power say so.

Boris Johnson's attempts to avoid democracy having a say in Brexit through pro-roguing was closer to being authoritarian that the mandatory turning up to vote. And, at the end of the day, the Australian system doesn't force you to vote. It doesn't even force you to turn up. You still have the *choice* to not turn up in exchange for paying a pretty small $20 fine. You still have that freedom to make that choice, and by your own admission you've made that choice.

Many around the world who genuinely live in Authoritarian states don't.

I agree that it isn't really authoritarian as such. I also agree that people shouldn't have to vote if they don't want to.

Although I must admit that I am in a minority of the aussies I know in this regard. Almost all people that I have spoken to have grown up having to vote (or turn up at least) and don't seem to give a shit.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I think you'll find that an Authoritarian state would prefer that you *don't* vote. Let's not confuse legal obligations enacted through democratic means with "authoritarian" regimes where legal obligations are enacted only because those in power say so.

Boris Johnson's attempts to avoid democracy having a say in Brexit through pro-roguing was closer to being authoritarian that the mandatory turning up to vote. And, at the end of the day, the Australian system doesn't force you to vote. It doesn't even force you to turn up. You still have the *choice* to not turn up in exchange for paying a pretty small $20 fine. You still have that freedom to make that choice, and by your own admission you've made that choice.

Many around the world who genuinely live in Authoritarian states don't.

authoritarian
[ɔːˌθɒrɪˈtɛːrɪən]
ADJECTIVE
favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.


I believe this is what is occurring.


As for legal obligations? Was there a referendum held on this? Was this enacted without the people's approval? Was there a mandate set by the people?

Why should I pay a single cent if I don't want to turn an up vote for these clowns?

I should have the choice to not give a shit and never have to turn up to any of their poxy elections if I don't wish too.

Having to turn up and have your name recorded IS forcing people to vote. You still have to put paper in a box, you can't rip it up once they give it to you. They will once again act all big brother over your actions.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How is allowing only a fraction of the people to vote more democratic than encouraging all the people to vote?

You don't mean "encouraging" you mean "forcing". Abstention is a very valid democratic option - FORCING people to vote is not.

 

[nicko31]

Australia like the UK is becoming more authoritarian, the criminalisation of protest being a fine example. Its one of the few democracies without a national human rights framework.

Compulsory voting is the very least of things to be worried about

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You don't mean "encouraging" you mean "forcing". Abstention is a very valid democratic option - FORCING people to vote is not.

The irony being that politicians are allowed to abstain from voting on things with no punishment but the people aren't.

 

[Baldseagull]

The irony being that politicians are allowed to abstain from voting on things with no punishment but the people aren't.

You can abstain, you just have to turn up to do so. I am not fully across the Aussie system, but I take it that your vote is private, and a politicians vote in parliament is public, and that most would agree that this difference is sensible, so a difference in the two is not necessarily a good argument to make. The politicians are also compelled to vote in the election, just as you are, I presume?

 

[Baldseagull]

You don't mean "encouraging" you mean "forcing". Abstention is a very valid democratic option - FORCING people to vote is not.

You can not turn up to vote and pay twenty bucks, or argue why you shouldn't have to in court instead, or you can abstain, but you have to turn up, or return your postal ballot unmarked. But if you have to do that, you might as well have a think about it and pick the least offensive party or person on the list.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You can abstain, you just have to turn up to do so. I am not fully across the Aussie system, but I take it that your vote is private, and a politicians vote in parliament is public, and that most would agree that this difference is sensible, so a difference in the two is not necessarily a good argument to make. The politicians are also compelled to vote in the election, just as you are, I presume?

Actually Labor votes are often private too because the Labor caucus does it behind closed doors.

Just to highlight the difference in the two parties.

The Coalition participated in 96.8% of floor crossing divisions compared to Labor’s 3.1% and the Coalition accounted for 90.2% of the individual MPs who crossed the floor compared to Labor’s 9.8%

Although some ALP floor crossers have been expelled from the party and the careers of some Coalition floor crossers have suffered, floor crossing does not appear to prevent Liberal Party and Nationals MPs becoming party leaders.

So they prevent people seeing if dissenting votes exist buy doing it behind doors and then voting along party lines in public.

 

[Baldseagull]

Actually Labor votes are often private too because the Labor caucus does it behind closed doors.

Just to highlight the difference in the two parties.

The Coalition participated in 96.8% of floor crossing divisions compared to Labor’s 3.1% and the Coalition accounted for 90.2% of the individual MPs who crossed the floor compared to Labor’s 9.8%

Although some ALP floor crossers have been expelled from the party and the careers of some Coalition floor crossers have suffered, floor crossing does not appear to prevent Liberal Party and Nationals MPs becoming party leaders.

So they prevent people seeing if dissenting votes exist buy doing it behind doors and then voting along party lines in public.

The Parties can make their own rules about how they select leaders, policies, make decisions or whatever, if you are not a member of that party then the way they do things is not really something you can change. In UK politics, the leadership would decide how they wanted their MP's to vote, and then use the whips to bribe, bully and cajole any individuals that looked like they might embarrass the leadership by voting differently. Think I prefer the sound of a behind closed doors debate and reaching a consensus approach myself.

I am not sure exactly what is meant by the term a floor crossing division, but I am guessing it's where an MP votes against the party line? And I am guessing that the Coalition is more than one party, which then makes sense for there to be more division, and that the coalition has a greater share of seats than Labour, so would have more MP's to cross the floor than Labour. It isn't clear if you are seeing more of the coalitions members true feelings, or if they are just generally a more diverse group, and therefore more likely to cross the floor, but I get your point that Labour having a hidden debate could mask the levels of dissent.