7-1 Why the hell can't England do that?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Are you oily South African Kevin ****ing Pietersen or something?

What a bell-end you are. Do you feel clever writing this?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Spot on. Brazil played with NO plan whatsoever, whereas Germany were very cold, clinical, and stuck to a plan.

?? Do you really think this? They had a plan and were clinical without doubt but they exuded wit, artistry and flair at times. In fact, organisation, clinical finishing, wit, artistry and flair is a devastating combination.....as Brasil found out.

 

[London Irish]

was German until the post-war border changes

Quite possibly - but surely the more salient point is that this said war was fought pretty much against the notion that you build nations on the basis of racial purity. So that gives young Miroslav the right to be German if he wants and goes through the appropriate legal channels. England fans have had an OK deal out of this as anyone who had admired John Barnes' goal at the Maracana should agree

 

[Mellotron]

?? Do you really think this? They had a plan and were clinical without doubt but they exuded wit, artistry and flair at times. In fact, organisation, clinical finishing, wit, artistry and flair is a devastating combination.....as Brasil found out.

Germany played gloriously. I'm not trying to damn them with faint praise and stereotypes (efficient) etc. Germany were the perfect team to play Brazil, mentally. They didn't get swept up in the hysteria, they looked logically at Brazil's deficiencies and took them apart.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Germany...I'm not trying to damn them with...stereotypes...they looked logically at Brazil's deficiencies

 

[Big_Unit]

Perhaps, but thats down to their early football experience.

We have created an early experience environment where young footballers are not encouraged to pass or receive the football.

This weekend go to a local tournament, wait for the semi final and take a look what those 8 year olds experience.

Parents thronged around a small pitch, maybe even two deep.

The greatest cheer will be when a youngsters boots it, heads it or tackles someone, god forbid if a little one tries to receive a pass from a defender and loses possession.

It just isnt tolerated, but I presume this is where Academys step in.

A few years ago I took a one-week FA course on coaching kids. It was for ex-professional players only, but due to some work I was doing at the time I got to take the course with them (my 'buddy' for the week was big Andy Morrison, one of the gentlest and nicest men you could ever meet, by the way).

The coaches and psychologists at the FA kept coming back to - unsurprisingly - "the Dutch model". If you're an eleven-year-old in The Netherlands (at an elite club), you play seven-a-side on a small pitch. Every ten minutes or so, the referee blows his whistle and every player switches position - the goalkeeper goes to right-back, the right-back to centre-back, the left-back into midfield, etc. No-one keeps score and there are no leagues.

The startlingly basic point of this set-up is that high performance and 'winning behaviours' don't matter at that age - who, in the grand scheme of things, really gives a toss who wins a local under-12s league? Technique, skills-accumulation and enjoyment are the only valid criteria. Performance and winning are not discussed or introduced until 14 / 15 years of age.

Contrast this with the typical English experience - practice and training involve concepts and values that most kids are way too young to grasp or put into practice. Tiny children slog their guts out on muddy, full-sized pitches, with wingers touching the ball about once every ten minutes. Fathers berate their kids for not 'getting stuck' in, and throw their toys out of the pram when a bunch of eight-year-olds lose a game.

The solution (long-term) is about changing this culture. Give kids a lot of touches of a football. Don't tell them at nine years old "you're a right-back". Let them enjoy and express themselves. And perhaps most importantly, remove results / performance / winning from the equation until an appropriate age.

My impression form the coaches was that they'd tried to bring these changes about, but the prevailing culture just wouldn't allow it. It was too difficult to shift the thinking of amateur coaches and parents.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is the difference: Germany apart, take a couple of big players from the other semi-finalists and they are all immediately rendered ordinary (Messi, Aguero, Neymar, Thiago Silva, Robben, Van Persie). Whereas, you can take any two you like from Germany and they would still be a superb side.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Looked like a bunch of p.m.t sufferers
regards
DR

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Leaving aside the fact that, man for man, the German players are pretty much all better than their English counterparts, the core of the German team (6 or 7 players) have been playing together internationally since they were in the junior German international teams. It was a deliberate decision to keep this core group together right through to the full international team. The dividends are now there for all to see.

Exactly this, if you look at how many caps some of these players have got and the age they are then its obvious why they are so good together as they know each others game inside out. Their squad for the world cup has 5 players with over 100 caps and only Klose is much over 30.

 

[Uncle Buck]

*Yawn*...Of course, by that logic most black players playing for England are Jamaican rather than English - you think that? I certainly don't - and Owen Hargreaves never existed. As you were.

They had claims to play for England.

Some of Germany's Poles, Ghanians etc are tenuous. Granted the Turkish decent ones are now German.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Lahm would be the best left back in the English squad, the best right back in the English squad and the best holding midfielder in the English squad. That says it all

To be fair, he's that in the German squad too. Great player.

 

[Uncle Buck]

You're showing your ignorance here. As I understand it Klose was born in an area which was German until the post-war border changes. His family were German and living in Germany until the border moved. Your family do not just lose your nationality if your country is over-taken by someone else.

Territorially that area was German pre 1945, but the Russians made it clear to any German there to get over the border to Germany and they moved the Poles in who had been living in what is now Ukraine, as Stalin wanted his western border moved some what.

 

[beorhthelm]

?? Do you really think this?

i certainly think Brazil had no plan. their previous tactics of "pass to Neymar" was replaced with "...?" bugger all. they just ran forward and no one seem to know what they were doing. it was school boy stuff in attack as much as defense.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

What a bell-end you are. Do you feel clever writing this?

So, so rich coming from you of all people!

 

[carteater]

I don't believe individually Germany's players are that much better than ours.

 

[Man of Harveys]

To be fair, he's that in the German squad too. Great player.

He's criminally underrated. Absolutely one of the all-time greats.

 

[Questions]

I've never seen a great England side and I have watched world cups back to 1970. I've seen us fluke our way to a semi in 1990 but that's it. Germany have always been at worse decent and at best brilliant. They have had so many strong teams but I still remember going to defend the World Cup in Mexico with Jeff Astle up front. It still makes me laugh even now.

 

[Mellotron]

That's not lazy stereotyping. Germany did do that.

 

[Rookie]

I've said it before but it's all down to playing with freedom and good decision making, we play like robots and are coached in exactly what to do and how to do it. Again, I'm not advocating the abolition of coaching, but let players play, it's what they do..... All this bollards about tippy tappy posession football, formations etc, it's hogwash

If I'm right you are saying kids in this country are over coached? There is a stat going round of the number of qualified coaches in Germany and Spain compared to us, it's not pretty reading.
Our youth coaches are, to put it bluntly, not good enough. If has nothing to do with being over coached.
I put a thread up here few weeks back asking how many had done their coaching badges, for a football forum the results were pretty low, the FA need to encourage people to take up coaching rather than just going out for a win on a Sunday morning in their kids under whatever game.

 

[dangull]

We did beat Germany in 2 world wars though, with a bit of help from other nations as well though.