Southern Rail STRIKE details

Hotchilidog · May 4, 2016

Deadly Danson said:
Correct. Good way to run a business eh?

Utterly clueless. As a commuter who has to endure this service on a daily basis I share Springal's frustration but his ire should surely be directed at a company that fails to employ enough staff to fulfill their published schedule. it's all about cutting costs and shareholder returns for, the last people they are concerend with are the staff and the passengers.

worthingseagull123 · May 4, 2016

I would love the Transport Minister to explain why GTR is allowed to carry on.

A totally failing company

albionite · May 4, 2016

Ernest said:
There is a higher level of sickness at the moment as Doctors are signing staff off, no sick note no pay so a Doctor has said that these people are not fit to be in charge of a train and taking care of their safety etc due to the bullying and harassment they are getting by Southern managers.

Strikes next week OFF and replaced by one on Friday 20th May 0001 - 23 59

It's not just sickness, most staff are not working overtime or working rest days . The railways survive on ot, the more staff stop doing it the more shambolic the service will become over the coming months.

Will show this firm up on how they run this company on the cheap and how much they need their staff

albionite · May 4, 2016

Springal said:
If staff are illegally striking, then I am quite right to take my anger out at them.

Incidentally been on a Brighton to Victoria train for an hour, not seen or heard from a guard at all.

You don't get guards on the Brighton to Victoria train, they have already got ridden of those

Ernest · May 4, 2016

albionite said:
It's not just sickness, most staff are not working overtime or working rest days . The railways survive on ot, the more staff stop doing it the more shambolic the service will become over the coming months.

Will show this firm up on how they run this company on the cheap and how much they need their staff

I know a little about how Southern works, I was a guard/Conductor there for 30+ years

Frutos · May 4, 2016

Although I am still of the belief that there would have been better ways for the staff to raise their grievances than causing mass disruption for their customers, in the face of the bullying and harrassment from SASTA management I have more sympathy for them than the lying joke of a train operator.ll

albionite · May 4, 2016

Ernest said:
I know a little about how Southern works, I was a guard/Conductor there for 30+ years

Yes sorry wasn't directed at you just in general and I hadn't read all what was written since last evening.

On that note I got the idea you was an ex signaller

Spiros · May 4, 2016

Frutos said:
Although I am still of the belief that there would have been better ways for the staff to raise their grievances than causing mass disruption for their customers, in the face of the bullying and harrassment from SASTA management I have more sympathy for them than the lying joke of a train operator.ll

Couldn't agree more. Although I sympathise with the staff who are being bullied by management, the staff's first course of action is to do stuff which directly impacts the passengers (who can't do anything about the bullying) rather than the managers. The way to hit SASTA more directly is to cut down their revenue. Rather than going on strike why don't the guards just stay in their little cabin on the train and refuse to collect any fares. If properly co-ordinated with station staff SASTA could then find themselves running a free train service until they addressed the issues. Might also keep more passengers on the staff side

Deadly Danson · May 4, 2016

Spiros said:
Couldn't agree more. Although I sympathise with the staff who are being bullied by management, the staff's first course of action is to do stuff which directly impacts the passengers (who can't do anything about the bullying) rather than the managers. The way to hit SASTA more directly is to cut down their revenue. Rather than going on strike why don't the guards just stay in their little cabin on the train and refuse to collect any fares. If properly co-ordinated with station staff SASTA could then find themselves running a free train service until they addressed the issues. Might also keep more passengers on the staff side

Wouldn't work. I'm not 100% on this as I'm not a guard, but I believe GTR don't receive anything from tickets sold any more which is why they are closing ticket offices down and concentrating on sacking as many staff as they can. I believe one of the reasons GTR want the guards to change their role from July (apart from of course so they can all be out of a job at the end of the franchise) is that they do earn revenue (or maybe get bonuses from the Dft) on full price tickets sold. i.e you won't be able to buy the best value ticket from the guard any more on the train - if for whatever reason you need a ticket on the train the guard will have to charge the full peak fare (hence why they don't want you talking to ticket office staff to get the best deals). GTR can only make money from things like parking (which is why the prices have increased) and revenue from station outlets and why they want to charge taxi drivers more. And this is why they have got rid of on board catering trolleys and have sacked the cleaners and replaced them with cheaper staff (a couple of reliable long-term friendly cleaners at Eastbourne were sacked this week with no notice). Again, I honestly don't know what else the guards could have done - no one was listening to them and when they voiced their concerns, the company said they would be implementing the changes anyway. Sadly, the travelling public are caught in the middle.

beorhthelm · May 4, 2016

Deadly Danson said:
Wouldn't work. I'm not 100% on this as I'm not a guard, but I believe GTR don't receive anything from tickets sold any more which is why they are closing ticket offices down and concentrating on sacking as many staff as they can. I believe one of the reasons GTR want the guards to change their role from July (apart from of course so they can all be out of a job at the end of the franchise) is that they do earn revenue (or maybe get bonuses from the Dft) on full price tickets sold. i.e you won't be able to buy the best value ticket from the guard any more on the train

i suspect theres a massive misinformation behind this. firstly, there's an outright contradiction that GTR don't receive revenue from fares but are under a requirement to collect fares and receive revenue if they are full price. its illogical. secondly there's substantial part of the franchises to offer and sell discounted fares, online tickets, contact less etc, to meet various targets, this goes directly against what you are saying. i think it would be fairly obvious to everyone if they simply closed offices to obstruct ticket sales and suddenly increased the number of "full fare" tickets sold.

albionite · May 4, 2016

beorhthelm said:
i suspect theres a massive misinformation behind this. firstly, there's an outright contradiction that GTR don't receive revenue from fares but are under a requirement to collect fares and receive revenue if they are full price. its illogical. secondly there's substantial part of the franchises to offer and sell discounted fares, online tickets, contact less etc, to meet various targets, this goes directly against what you are saying. i think it would be fairly obvious to everyone if they simply closed offices to obstruct ticket sales and suddenly increased the number of "full fare" tickets sold.

No he has pretty much got it spot on.

Ernest · May 4, 2016

beorhthelm said:
i suspect theres a massive misinformation behind this. firstly, there's an outright contradiction that GTR don't receive revenue from fares but are under a requirement to collect fares and receive revenue if they are full price. its illogical. secondly there's substantial part of the franchises to offer and sell discounted fares, online tickets, contact less etc, to meet various targets, this goes directly against what you are saying. i think it would be fairly obvious to everyone if they simply closed offices to obstruct ticket sales and suddenly increased the number of "full fare" tickets sold.

No he is 100% correct, GTR are managing the franchise for the DfT who are the ones who want DOO country wide and Southern are the ones to kick it off, they want to implement the McNulty report of 2011 in full

Westdene Seagull · May 4, 2016

Deadly Danson said:
Wouldn't work. I'm not 100% on this as I'm not a guard, but I believe GTR don't receive anything from tickets sold any more

That makes no sense at all. Of course TOCs get ticket income, otherwise where does their income come from ?

Ernest · May 4, 2016

Westdene Seagull said:
That makes no sense at all. Of course TOCs get ticket income, otherwise where does their income come from ?

Paid by the DfT to run the franchise then get income from things like renting Taxi ranks etc as he already explained.

Westdene Seagull · May 4, 2016

Ernest said:
Paid by the DfT to run the franchise then get income from things like renting Taxi ranks etc as he already explained.

Care to provide a link to this claim ? I ask as a quick google suggests that this franchise is run in exactly the same way as all the others i.e. they bid and pay and then get the income.

Taxi ranks as far as I can tell are owned by Network Rail so they would get the income from them.

beorhthelm · May 4, 2016

albionite said:
No he has pretty much got it spot on.

so explain why they push contactless, where all travel on the day is consolidated. also since when are they allowed to charge full peak fare for off peak travel? maybe you have the same source of mis-information?

to add some substance, press release in Railway Gazette (i hope a neutral source)

Running for seven years, the TSGN franchise has been structured as a management contract, reflecting the complexity and scale of the Thameslink Programme infrastructure works. Ticket revenues estimated at £12·4bn will be passed directly to the government, while Govia will be paid around £8·9bn to cover operating costs and a small margin allowance. There is also an incentive regime based on service quality targets including punctuality, customer experience and revenue protection, along with extra payments for the delivery of ‘key performance milestones’.

so revenue protection aspect makes sense, but they'll be severely failing on already service quality and poor customer experience.

Ernest · May 4, 2016

beorhthelm said:
so explain why they push contactless, where all travel on the day is consolidated. also since when are they allowed to charge full peak fare for off peak travel? maybe you have the same source of mis-information?

to add some substance, press release in Railway Gazette (i hope a neutral source)

so revenue protection aspect makes sense, but they'll be severely failing on already service quality and poor customer experience.

If you do not buy a ticket before your journey you are only allowed to buy a full fare ticket on board the train, this is never enforced by Conductors as it is just asking for trouble. Southern now want this enforced as it comes under the revenue protection target thus them making money from it

Ernest · May 4, 2016

RAIL UNION RMT confirmed this morning that it has switched the next strike date for action involving guards on GTR Southern as the union’s executive prepares for a prolonged campaign over the threat to the role of the guards and the undermining of rail safety.
The union executive has agreed to pull back the strike action called for Tuesday 10th May to Wednesday 11th May and for Thursday 12th May to Friday 13th May and instead instruct guards members to take strike action by not working any shifts that book on between 0001 and 2359 on Friday 20th May.
RMT will also be taking legal advice on the threatening and abusive stance the company is adopting towards union members using their basic human right to strike in defence of rail safety.
A fresh wave of campaigning, targeted at building on public support for RMT’s fight with Southern over the future of safe staffing levels and safe train operation, is being prepared as the union moves the dispute forwards.
RMT General Secretary, Mick Cash said:

“We have reassessed the tactics of the dispute and, recognising the hostile and aggressive stance taken by the company as we fight for the basic principles of rail safety, RMT’s executive has decided to switch the next phase of action to the 20th May.

“Southern GTR should be under no illusions, the union will not bend to their bullying and threats and we will be out there building on the huge public support we have already mobilised in a campaign that pitches the demands for increasing private profits against safety on our railways.

“Southern GTR fleeces its passengers for a fortune in fares for unreliable and overcrowded services and RMT will not allow safety to be the next thing sacrificed in the dash for fatter and fatter profits on this rail franchise.”

CherryInHove · May 4, 2016

Gah! I was looking forward to saving £100 by not having to commute next Tuesday and Wednesday and they've only gone and ruined it for me.

beorhthelm · May 4, 2016

Ernest said:
If you do not buy a ticket before your journey you are only allowed to buy a full fare ticket on board the train, this is never enforced by Conductors as it is just asking for trouble. Southern now want this enforced as it comes under the revenue protection target thus them making money from it

thats makes sense as far as full peak fare or off peak fare as appropriate, they shirley cant charge peak fare when traveling through Burgess Hill at 11:30.

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Southern Rail STRIKE details

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