UKIP are now a parliamentary party

keaton · Oct 14, 2014

Danny-Boy said:
Interesting to see how the Greens have coped with running Brighton Council.. see what you get with a "protest vote"?

It's like revolutionaries, they all know what or whom they DON'T want, but can't agree on what they DO want.

I wouldn't say the Greens are protest vote, they have actual policies and as an MP I've been impressed with Lucas.

What have they (the Green Council) done wrong? (i'm guessing you're going to say Bins or Bicycle lanes as if either is their fault)

Simster · Oct 14, 2014

Danny-Boy said:
Interesting to see how the Greens have coped with running Brighton Council.. see what you get with a "protest vote"?

It's like revolutionaries, they all know what or whom they DON'T want, but can't agree on what they DO want.

I agree with [MENTION=3166]keaton[/MENTION]. I'm not convinced the Greens are a protest vote any more. They're picking up votes from plenty of people with natural tendancies to other parties these days. I think I might be one of them this time round.

Hotchilidog · Oct 14, 2014

keaton said:
I wouldn't say the Greens are protest vote, they have actual policies and as an MP I've been impressed with Lucas.

What have they (the Green Council) done wrong? (i'm guessing you're going to say Bins or Bicycle lanes as if either is their fault)

The Greens are far more a positive vote now. The increasing creep rightwards by Labour and Lib Dems have left a lot of voters disenfranchised by their former party of choice, and the Greens have stepped into that void. I think Caroline will JUST hold on to Pavilion but it will be very close and they will need to fight for every vote. I think the council have done a decent job but their PR is utterly abysmal and I expect them to lose the control at the next local election.

The Greens main problem is lack of visibility, sadly they do not have media reporting their every move (despite polling very close to the lib dems for a couple of years now). This is in complete contrast to UKIP who have the benefit of a media publicity machine which broadly agrees with their anti-immigrant/Eu stance and therefore people have a much greater awareness of UKIP, even if they do not the detail of their policies.

Nibble · Oct 14, 2014

I can't see why you are all getting so uptight about Ukip. They won't come to anything. Farage will be on I'm a celebrity in the next few years just like Galloway with his "respect" party. Clown shoes.

El Presidente · Oct 14, 2014

bashlsdir said:
What's the answer for everyone, carry on with three same useless parties over and over again. We need a new direction.

Fair enough, why not vote Green? UKIP are a bunch of Tory castoffs, so won't look after anyone's interests apart from their own, at least the Greens will do something for the greater good of the country which we are occupying for the benefit of our children.

Buzzer · Oct 14, 2014

Hotchilidog said:
The Greens are far more a positive vote now. The increasing creep rightwards by Labour and Lib Dems have left a lot of voters disenfranchised by their former party of choice, and the Greens have stepped into that void. I think Caroline will JUST hold on to Pavilion but it will be very close and they will need to fight for every vote. I think the council have done a decent job but their PR is utterly abysmal and I expect them to lose the control at the next local election.

The Greens main problem is lack of visibility, sadly they do not have media reporting their every move (despite polling very close to the lib dems for a couple of years now). This is in complete contrast to UKIP who have the benefit of a media publicity machine which broadly agrees with their anti-immigrant/Eu stance and therefore people have a much greater awareness of UKIP, even if they do not the detail of their policies.

Got to say I agree with that assessment completely. I'd also add a point someone else made that the Greens locally need a much stronger party Whip to avoid all the all-too-public infighting and social media disasters. I also agree with you that they will lose control locally but that Lucas will just hold on to her national seat, ironically in a large part because of her personality and strong reputation as a damn good constituency MP rather than her party's policies.

seagullsovergrimsby · Oct 14, 2014

Anybody know how the figures stack up if exiting the EU means the UK Government can abolish VAT or replace it with a 5% goods and sales tax ?

Hotchilidog · Oct 14, 2014

Buzzer said:
Got to say I agree with that assessment completely. I'd also add a point someone else made that the Greens locally need a much stronger party Whip to avoid all the all-too-public infighting and social media disasters. I also agree with you that they will lose control locally but that Lucas will just hold on to her national seat, ironically in a large part because of her personality and strong reputation as a damn good constituency MP rather than her party's policies.

Spot on.

Bold Seagull · Oct 14, 2014

Buzzer said:
Got to say I agree with that assessment completely. I'd also add a point someone else made that the Greens locally need a much stronger party Whip to avoid all the all-too-public infighting and social media disasters. I also agree with you that they will lose control locally but that Lucas will just hold on to her national seat, ironically in a large part because of her personality and strong reputation as a damn good constituency MP rather than her party's policies.

I do like the notion of supporting your local MP on what they've done for their local constituency rather than just party politics. I did see a quote from a Clacton resident (which may or not be true) who when asked why they'd voted UKIP said "we'd had the Tory MP for years who'd done nothing so I thought it was time for a change."

Christopher Hawtree is standing for the Greens in Hove, he's an erudite witty character who can be occasionally prickly but I think has served the local council really well, and would make a good MP in my opinion. May well be my voting direction come next May.

keaton · Oct 14, 2014

Hotchilidog said:
The Greens are far more a positive vote now. The increasing creep rightwards by Labour and Lib Dems have left a lot of voters disenfranchised by their former party of choice, and the Greens have stepped into that void. I think Caroline will JUST hold on to Pavilion but it will be very close and they will need to fight for every vote. I think the council have done a decent job but their PR is utterly abysmal and I expect them to lose the control at the next local election.

The Greens main problem is lack of visibility, sadly they do not have media reporting their every move (despite polling very close to the lib dems for a couple of years now). This is in complete contrast to UKIP who have the benefit of a media publicity machine which broadly agrees with their anti-immigrant/Eu stance and therefore people have a much greater awareness of UKIP, even if they do not the detail of their policies.

I think the point about the Green's council PR is a very good one. They are getting a lot of stick thrown at them by Labour and the Conservatives despite the fact that they have played as much part in the issues but they've been completely unable or unwilling to fight this in the media. Whenever they are in the media they then seem to say the stupidest thing they can think of

Cian · Oct 14, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
Anybody know how the figures stack up if exiting the EU means the UK Government can abolish VAT or replace it with a 5% goods and sales tax ?

Taking UKIPs claim of £18Bn costs of being in the EU and assuming nothing else at all changed as a result, they could bring it to maybe 15% - VAT takes in nearly £90Bn. It of course *has* be 15% relatively recently.

WATFORD zero · Oct 14, 2014

Danny-Boy said:
Interesting to see how the Greens have coped with running Brighton Council.. see what you get with a "protest vote"?

If you want to make a 'protest' vote, then make it at the correct election.

I have always gone for good, proven, hardworking local councillors at local elections regardless of parties. If you get a load of inexperienced wannabe politicians as councillors, it can be reflected in the service you get locally (and we have seen this over the years throughout Britain with various parties putting up 'protest councillors'). It's the same as voting for a party at a European election who are simply going to take the salaries and expenses and not turn up or fight for Britain's interests in the EU.

It's just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 14, 2014

Bold Seagull said:
I did see a quote from a Clacton resident (which may or not be true) who when asked why they'd voted UKIP said "we'd had the Tory MP for years who'd done nothing so I thought it was time for a change."

Brilliant.

Go Kippers.

cunning fergus · Oct 14, 2014

Bold Seagull said:
Have you made a single post on this thread about UKIP's stable policies? I can't find one……

I know that UKIP want to exit the European Union, that is why they were formed and that is still what their policies coalesce around. Seems to me any political party that keeps true to its political principles is stable. Consequently, UKIP can make policy promises because of exiting the EU..............like preventing convicted foreign muderers from living in the UK due to regaining control of our borders.

Labour on the other hand (by way of an example of another political party) coalesced around socialist doctine when they were formed and they principles such common ownership (old clause IV) and redistribution of wealth to the working class were understood. But now they have changed and their principles are about free market economics and international liberalism, which sticks 2 fingers up to the old trade union movement like the RMT (one of the founding unions of the labour movement) and the British working class.

The Labour party's commitment to EU orthodoxy means they can no longer offer common ownership or protect the wages of the British working class.

Do you see the difference between a party with stable policies and one with fluid policies...............

dingodan · Oct 14, 2014

Let's sort out taxation.

We need Human Action.

Westdene Seagull · Oct 14, 2014

Bold Seagull said:
Christopher Hawtree is standing for the Greens in Hove, he's an erudite witty character who can be occasionally prickly but I think has served the local council really well, and would make a good MP in my opinion. May well be my voting direction come next May.

Who campaigned tirelessly before becoming a councillor in support of the city's library services - regularly arguing that there should be not a single penny cut from the budget for libraries. He even used this in his electoral material. Now guess who voted for cuts to the library service including the scrapping of the mobile library ? You've got it - Cllr Hawtree. Thankfully he doesn't stand a cats-in-hell chance of being elected as an MP.

beorhthelm · Oct 14, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
Anybody know how the figures stack up if exiting the EU means the UK Government can abolish VAT or replace it with a 5% goods and sales tax ?

the government would be free to set VAT as it pleases, including reducing or zero rating some goods, which currently is not allowed (only those already set at 0% may remain so). financially its a different story, couldn't hope to reduce to 5% without hiking income tax or substantial cuts to balance the books.

Bold Seagull · Oct 14, 2014

cunning fergus said:
I know that UKIP want to exit the European Union, that is why they were formed and that is still what their policies coalesce around. Seems to me any political party that keeps true to its political principles is stable. Consequently, UKIP can make policy promises because of exiting the EU..............like preventing convicted foreign muderers from living in the UK due to regaining control of our borders.

Is that it? Forgetting your obsessing about what Labour are doing in every post you write, is that all you can come up with?

Is complaining about the old politics really the new politics?

spring hall convert · Oct 14, 2014

Simster said:
As much as I dislike UKIP, I do sort of applaud their stance on the BBC. That Panorama programme certainly had things to say, but half of it was entirely irrelevant.

So whilst UKIP drawing €70m from the European taxpayer and rarely turning up to parliament IS in the public interest, along with the fact that Farage whinges incessantly about British fishing quotas whilst having by far the WORST attendance record of all MEPs in the fisheries commission, I really don't care about him being a "bully" to fellow party members, and being rude to other people he holds in contempt. The latter smelt strongly of a hatchet job.

And lets face it, the BBC have form for propping up the establishment. My particular bug bear is the Royal family, but even ignoring that, I don't recall them running a show where Gordon Brown's bullying reputation was scrutinised. And they never bothered calling to account absurd pro Unionist Xenophobe, Iain Paisley when he shamefully yelled at the Pope during a parliament session. So why does Farage deserve this treatment?

It's totally counter productive as well. If there's something good out there on Farage, let's have it out in the open, otherwise stop it. It's adding fuel to the fire of the ridiculous notion that UKIP are anti-establishment.

spring hall convert · Oct 14, 2014

Can someone answer one simple question for me?

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UKIP are now a parliamentary party

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